ESM Dornier DO 335
02-21-2013, 08:09 AM
#501
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RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: jmohn
Jim,
You can stick all the battery packs up front right behind the firewall. That's what I had to do on mine. I made a hatch rught behind the front firewall and stuck all the packs right there. It balanced fine that way.
If you use 10 or 12 guage wire you should be fine. Just get the good stuff (wet noodle) stranded copper to keep the resistance down.
Mine fit in the fuze right above the front wheel bay.
Jeff
Jim,
You can stick all the battery packs up front right behind the firewall. That's what I had to do on mine. I made a hatch rught behind the front firewall and stuck all the packs right there. It balanced fine that way.
If you use 10 or 12 guage wire you should be fine. Just get the good stuff (wet noodle) stranded copper to keep the resistance down.
Mine fit in the fuze right above the front wheel bay.
Jeff
02-21-2013, 12:20 PM
#502
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RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
Coolio. Just didnt know if it would slow one engine down in order to sync them
Both.... Let us know how it goes!
ORIGINAL: grossy2
Good point. I just used the gear out of my Tiger Cat. I just love the harmonics of a twin in Sync.
Cheers
Grossy
ORIGINAL: F82FAN
Just a Q....
Why use a twin sync on a pusher twin with dissimilar engines/propellers???
I cant for the life of me think of a reason...
ORIGINAL: grossy2
I'm using a Wike PDS and Twin Sync. All powered by dual A123 batterys. These I placed up front next to the engine.
I'm using a Wike PDS and Twin Sync. All powered by dual A123 batterys. These I placed up front next to the engine.
Why use a twin sync on a pusher twin with dissimilar engines/propellers???
I cant for the life of me think of a reason...
Cheers
Grossy
02-21-2013, 01:04 PM
#503
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: oliveDrab
Amen to that. The last time I tested a motor w/prop in the living room, the plane leapt off the table and bit me. Cost me $900. Kahloq - I'm so excited to see your DO-335 coming together! Can't wait to see the finished plane.
ORIGINAL: kahloq
Yeah except this is one ''fan'' that'll cut your hand off if your not careful.
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
Looks like a this old house episode on how to install a ceiling fan! lol
Looks like a this old house episode on how to install a ceiling fan! lol
02-21-2013, 01:44 PM
#504
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
Ouch! That sucks. Another reason I do not like electrics. Sorry
Ouch! That sucks. Another reason I do not like electrics. Sorry
Its no different......safety procedures need to be adhered to with either, cuz BOTH can maim you.
02-21-2013, 04:52 PM
#505
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
It's a lot different. I have been hand starting engines since 1980 and have never been hurt by a prop. It is about understanding what is going on and paying attention. An electric is more dangerous and you have to be even more careful. I feel they are way more dangerous. IMO
02-22-2013, 12:54 PM
#507
Senior Member
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: F82FAN
Coolio. Just didnt know if it would slow one engine down in order to sync them
Both.... Let us know how it goes!
Coolio. Just didnt know if it would slow one engine down in order to sync them
Both.... Let us know how it goes!
ORIGINAL: grossy2
Good point. I just used the gear out of my Tiger Cat. I just love the harmonics of a twin in Sync.
Cheers
Grossy
ORIGINAL: F82FAN
Just a Q....
Why use a twin sync on a pusher twin with dissimilar engines/propellers???
I cant for the life of me think of a reason...
ORIGINAL: grossy2
I'm using a Wike PDS and Twin Sync. All powered by dual A123 batterys. These I placed up front next to the engine.
I'm using a Wike PDS and Twin Sync. All powered by dual A123 batterys. These I placed up front next to the engine.
Why use a twin sync on a pusher twin with dissimilar engines/propellers???
I cant for the life of me think of a reason...
Cheers
Grossy
I'll let you how it goes. we have had terrable weather the last few weeks down under. I was suppose to fly today, but a large low is over the Mid East coast and once again it's windy and raining. Mid you, further North they have flooding and South we have hot and dry, with bush fires.
Cheers
02-22-2013, 03:20 PM
#508
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
It's a lot different. I have been hand starting engines since 1980 and have never been hurt by a prop. It is about understanding what is going on and paying attention. An electric is more dangerous and you have to be even more careful. I feel they are way more dangerous. IMO
It's a lot different. I have been hand starting engines since 1980 and have never been hurt by a prop. It is about understanding what is going on and paying attention. An electric is more dangerous and you have to be even more careful. I feel they are way more dangerous. IMO
You said......"It is about understanding what is going on and paying attention". Bingo.......same exact thing for electrics. You have to ARM the esc to get power to the motor....just as you have to start a fuel motor. The difference there is...once the fuel powered motor is running....it has to STAY running. Moving the plane around needs MORE attention then an electric plane since the electric....the motor can be stopped and doesnt require an idle while waiting, taxing, whatever. There are also arming plugs that can be used for electrics as well. Pull that out and NO power gets to motor if you install one regardless of whether the battery is hooked up or rx is on.
Its a different beast, but no more dangerous then fuel....in fact...in a lot of ways a lot LESS dangerous. They just dont make much noise and you LIKE a plane that makes a bunch of rakkit.
You're a good guy Vertical and very knowledgeable about gas and nitro motors where i am not. On the reverse.....I know a crap ton more about electrics then you do as that's where my expertise lies. My safety procedures are slightly different then you would use on a fuel powered plane and I know what to do and what not to do. I have never had a plane fly off the table or anything like that or cut my hand once. Because I know what I am doing and am paying attention. When it comes to gas motors, thats where I refer to your vast knowledge base....and to be honest here....and let everyone know Im not being anything BUT truthful.....did I not ask you to test run my turnigy 50cc gas engine cuz I know next to squat about them?
02-22-2013, 04:10 PM
#509
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RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
Makes perfect sense now.
I trust it will work as expected.
Hope to see vids when the WX us better and the fires subside!
Sounds like Texas down under too!
Floods, fires, drought, tornados, just missing
some pestilance and we have most of the plagues...
I trust it will work as expected.
Hope to see vids when the WX us better and the fires subside!
Sounds like Texas down under too!
Floods, fires, drought, tornados, just missing
some pestilance and we have most of the plagues...
02-22-2013, 05:23 PM
#511
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RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: kahloq
Just hope ''The Walking Dead'' don't come strolling thru in a herd. That's one virus/plague id rather avoid.
Just hope ''The Walking Dead'' don't come strolling thru in a herd. That's one virus/plague id rather avoid.
Scary!!!!
02-22-2013, 07:55 PM
#512
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: kahloq
No...there is ZERO difference. It's only your biased vantaged point and opinion because you LIKE gas engines. Me....once I have my spitfire running with a gas motor, I WILL have a steel wire mesh glove for hand starting as I am not taking chances of losing my fingers....either that or buying a big honkin engine starter to keep my hands away from that dangerous thing. Hobbyking sells one that will turn over a 300cc motor, but its $299
You said......''It is about understanding what is going on and paying attention''. Bingo.......same exact thing for electrics. You have to ARM the esc to get power to the motor....just as you have to start a fuel motor. The difference there is...once the fuel powered motor is running....it has to STAY running. Moving the plane around needs MORE attention then an electric plane since the electric....the motor can be stopped and doesnt require an idle while waiting, taxing, whatever. There are also arming plugs that can be used for electrics as well. Pull that out and NO power gets to motor if you install one regardless of whether the battery is hooked up or rx is on.
Its a different beast, but no more dangerous then fuel....in fact...in a lot of ways a lot LESS dangerous. They just dont make much noise and you LIKE a plane that makes a bunch of rakkit.
You're a good guy Vertical and very knowledgeable about gas and nitro motors where i am not. On the reverse.....I know a crap ton more about electrics then you do as that's where my expertise lies. My safety procedures are slightly different then you would use on a fuel powered plane and I know what to do and what not to do. I have never had a plane fly off the table or anything like that or cut my hand once. Because I know what I am doing and am paying attention. When it comes to gas motors, thats where I refer to your vast knowledge base....and to be honest here....and let everyone know Im not being anything BUT truthful.....did I not ask you to test run my turnigy 50cc gas engine cuz I know next to squat about them?
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
It's a lot different. I have been hand starting engines since 1980 and have never been hurt by a prop. It is about understanding what is going on and paying attention. An electric is more dangerous and you have to be even more careful. I feel they are way more dangerous. IMO
It's a lot different. I have been hand starting engines since 1980 and have never been hurt by a prop. It is about understanding what is going on and paying attention. An electric is more dangerous and you have to be even more careful. I feel they are way more dangerous. IMO
You said......''It is about understanding what is going on and paying attention''. Bingo.......same exact thing for electrics. You have to ARM the esc to get power to the motor....just as you have to start a fuel motor. The difference there is...once the fuel powered motor is running....it has to STAY running. Moving the plane around needs MORE attention then an electric plane since the electric....the motor can be stopped and doesnt require an idle while waiting, taxing, whatever. There are also arming plugs that can be used for electrics as well. Pull that out and NO power gets to motor if you install one regardless of whether the battery is hooked up or rx is on.
Its a different beast, but no more dangerous then fuel....in fact...in a lot of ways a lot LESS dangerous. They just dont make much noise and you LIKE a plane that makes a bunch of rakkit.
You're a good guy Vertical and very knowledgeable about gas and nitro motors where i am not. On the reverse.....I know a crap ton more about electrics then you do as that's where my expertise lies. My safety procedures are slightly different then you would use on a fuel powered plane and I know what to do and what not to do. I have never had a plane fly off the table or anything like that or cut my hand once. Because I know what I am doing and am paying attention. When it comes to gas motors, thats where I refer to your vast knowledge base....and to be honest here....and let everyone know Im not being anything BUT truthful.....did I not ask you to test run my turnigy 50cc gas engine cuz I know next to squat about them?
I had a 100mm Tamjet EDF motor spinning at 25,000+ rpms. I had started plenty of electrics but nothing like this. Anyway, the motor would not arm so I moved the throttle stick up and down a few times (mistake number one)...suddenly I heard it arm itself and moved the stick to the low position quickly (mistake number 2). Kahlog can tell you what happened next...beat...beat...The 25,000 rpm motor went to full throttle and exploded the carbon fiber prop into 8 large pieces. One sliced through my sleeve and missed slitting my wrist by a 1/4 inch, the rest shot across the shop like a hand grenade had gone off. It's a miracle I wasn't hurt seriously.
So what did I do wrong to begin with? Anybody know? Beat...Beat...throttle was reversed in the transmitter. It armed itself with the throttle up and went full speed with the throttle down.
I thought I was a pretty smart, careful guy...not any more.
I won't bore you with my HexaCopter stories, but one ESC/BL failure and you could have 6 blades in your face very quickly.
As were learning...and even afterwards...its all dangerous.
Be careful out there.
jim
02-22-2013, 09:11 PM
#513
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
I will not comment again on the Electric vs engine issue here as it is off topic. But I see more accidents with electrics than I do with engines. The reason why is that they can go to instant, full power just trying to set them up. Usually these accidents are in the shop or someones living room. There are certainly serious injuries with both types of propulsion, but it is my opinion that you have to be more careful with electrics. There is more of a possibility for the prop to start turning unexpectedly with E power than with an engine. This has nothing to do with which type of propulsion you prefer, it is just the nature of the the beast.
Also, the 2 very serious incidents we have had within our club were grievous errors on the part of the users. 2 airplanes with over 50cc engines started without assistance or proper restraint. They broke all the rules with engines you do not mess around with.
To bring this back to the DO 335, I think much attention will need to be paid to that rear prop when starting if an engine is used here. One time when E power might be safer!
Also, the 2 very serious incidents we have had within our club were grievous errors on the part of the users. 2 airplanes with over 50cc engines started without assistance or proper restraint. They broke all the rules with engines you do not mess around with.
To bring this back to the DO 335, I think much attention will need to be paid to that rear prop when starting if an engine is used here. One time when E power might be safer!
02-22-2013, 09:46 PM
#514
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
I will not comment again on the Electric vs engine issue here as it is off topic. But I see more accidents with electrics than I do with engines. The reason why is that they can go to instant, full power just trying to set them up. Usually these accidents are in the shop or someones living room. There are certainly serious injuries with both types of propulsion, but it is my opinion that you have to be more careful with electrics. There is more of a possibility for the prop to start turning unexpectedly with E power than with an engine. This has nothing to do with which type of propulsion you prefer, it is just the nature of the the beast.
Also, the 2 very serious incidents we have had within our club were grievous errors on the part of the users. 2 airplanes with over 50cc engines started without assistance or proper restraint. They broke all the rules with engines you do not mess around with.
To bring this back to the DO 335, I think much attention will need to be paid to that rear prop when starting if an engine is used here. One time when E power might be safer!
I will not comment again on the Electric vs engine issue here as it is off topic. But I see more accidents with electrics than I do with engines. The reason why is that they can go to instant, full power just trying to set them up. Usually these accidents are in the shop or someones living room. There are certainly serious injuries with both types of propulsion, but it is my opinion that you have to be more careful with electrics. There is more of a possibility for the prop to start turning unexpectedly with E power than with an engine. This has nothing to do with which type of propulsion you prefer, it is just the nature of the the beast.
Also, the 2 very serious incidents we have had within our club were grievous errors on the part of the users. 2 airplanes with over 50cc engines started without assistance or proper restraint. They broke all the rules with engines you do not mess around with.
To bring this back to the DO 335, I think much attention will need to be paid to that rear prop when starting if an engine is used here. One time when E power might be safer!
Try standing with your legs against the stab while doing this...one club member did...never again.
Here's a good one...if you have any pebbles or tiny rocks on the runway, the front prop likes to throw them into the rear prop.
You know how we tell people not to stand next to the prop, well now you have twice as many to worry about.
One club member, out of habit, tried to help by grabbing the tail to point the nose towards the runway. "thank you, but please don't do that".
Most people can not comprehend a prop on the rear of a plane...it really is a trick our brain plays on us.
Be careful out there.
I have over 70 flights on my ESM Do335...it still scares the sh!# out me.
02-23-2013, 12:39 AM
#515
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: jimkron
I have over 70 flights on my ESM Do335...it still scares the sh!# out me.
I have over 70 flights on my ESM Do335...it still scares the sh!# out me.
hehe.
02-23-2013, 02:08 AM
#516
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
I can attest to having seen issues with electric setups also. So yea, its not without risk. One glaring one is others trying to be helpful and grabbing your tx if you need to go get your plane cuz maybe you nosed over on the runway or ran off the side on landing....or whatever. You go to get the plane and someone else is holding your tx and gets started talking with another person......all the while not paying attention and bumps the throttle stick while you're trying to carrying your plane back to the pits. I had that happen a couple weeks ago. Thankfully I was carrying the plane nose away from me(common sense). But the guy had pushed full throttle and I'm trying to yell at him to shut it down.
I won't let anyone take or hold my tx anymore after that.
I won't let anyone take or hold my tx anymore after that.
02-23-2013, 02:21 AM
#517
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
Btw....I did flip the rear prop around. Thanks to everyone who tried to be inform me about it. I thought I had it right,....and didn't. Apologies for my stubbornness.
02-23-2013, 03:46 AM
#518
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
Good luck on the maiden flight of the 335, Kahloq, I hope all goes well.
It should because according to Ta 152 it was not difficult to land. I hope you haven't used much of the ARF hardware that came with it, but use rigid big warbird stuff instead.
Hopefully there will be a video too.
It should because according to Ta 152 it was not difficult to land. I hope you haven't used much of the ARF hardware that came with it, but use rigid big warbird stuff instead.
Hopefully there will be a video too.
02-23-2013, 05:40 AM
#519
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: kahloq
I can attest to having seen issues with electric setups also. So yea, its not without risk. One glaring one is others trying to be helpful and grabbing your tx if you need to go get your plane cuz maybe you nosed over on the runway or ran off the side on landing....or whatever. You go to get the plane and someone else is holding your tx and gets started talking with another person......all the while not paying attention and bumps the throttle stick while you're trying to carrying your plane back to the pits. I had that happen a couple weeks ago. Thankfully I was carrying the plane nose away from me(common sense). But the guy had pushed full throttle and I'm trying to yell at him to shut it down.
I won't let anyone take or hold my tx anymore after that.
I can attest to having seen issues with electric setups also. So yea, its not without risk. One glaring one is others trying to be helpful and grabbing your tx if you need to go get your plane cuz maybe you nosed over on the runway or ran off the side on landing....or whatever. You go to get the plane and someone else is holding your tx and gets started talking with another person......all the while not paying attention and bumps the throttle stick while you're trying to carrying your plane back to the pits. I had that happen a couple weeks ago. Thankfully I was carrying the plane nose away from me(common sense). But the guy had pushed full throttle and I'm trying to yell at him to shut it down.
I won't let anyone take or hold my tx anymore after that.
Also, my understanding of this incident, no stick movement was involved at all. It was radio glitch or something . Regardless how it occurred, it is another incident of a motor shooting up to full power unexpectedly. You are lucky you did not get hurt.
Just like having the ability to kill ignition power on the side of a gas engine being mandated by the AMA, some sort of protocol for electrics should be a rule as well. At least with an engine, they have to be turned smartly through compression to start. (not likely while carrying your plane) Where an electric can run up to full power on it's own.
02-23-2013, 06:18 AM
#521
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
I think the 335 is more hazardous in the pits
like someone said we are not accustom to the REAR motor
I have had to educated my helper when starting my plane
I always start the rear motor first
with someone standing in front of the stab
then I move to the front and start the front
I have cautioned everyone NOT to grab the top rudder to assist with run up or taxi
same on Landing
I try to be the only one that touches the plane with the motors runningan\\
and I be very careful
treat it like a porcupine it has BARBS everywhere
handle with care electric or fuel
Kaloug is was interesting to see you resist for so long-the advice of everyone on the direction of your prop
like someone said we are not accustom to the REAR motor
I have had to educated my helper when starting my plane
I always start the rear motor first
with someone standing in front of the stab
then I move to the front and start the front
I have cautioned everyone NOT to grab the top rudder to assist with run up or taxi
same on Landing
I try to be the only one that touches the plane with the motors runningan\\
and I be very careful
treat it like a porcupine it has BARBS everywhere
handle with care electric or fuel
Kaloug is was interesting to see you resist for so long-the advice of everyone on the direction of your prop
02-23-2013, 06:39 AM
#522
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
I would think an arming switch would be the prudent thing here. At least have the ability to unplug the battery before carrying the plane back. Of course this needs to be done quickly as you need to clear the flightline. Isn't a deans plug used to achieve this?
Also, my understanding of this incident, no stick movement was involved at all. It was radio glitch or something . Regardless how it occurred, it is another incident of a motor shooting up to full power unexpectedly. You are lucky you did not get hurt.
Just like having the ability to kill ignition power on the side of a gas engine being mandated by the AMA, some sort of protocol for electrics should be a rule as well. At least with an engine, they have to be turned smartly through compression to start. (not likely while carrying your plane) Where an electric can run up to full power on it's own.
ORIGINAL: kahloq
I can attest to having seen issues with electric setups also. So yea, its not without risk. One glaring one is others trying to be helpful and grabbing your tx if you need to go get your plane cuz maybe you nosed over on the runway or ran off the side on landing....or whatever. You go to get the plane and someone else is holding your tx and gets started talking with another person......all the while not paying attention and bumps the throttle stick while you're trying to carrying your plane back to the pits. I had that happen a couple weeks ago. Thankfully I was carrying the plane nose away from me(common sense). But the guy had pushed full throttle and I'm trying to yell at him to shut it down.
I won't let anyone take or hold my tx anymore after that.
I can attest to having seen issues with electric setups also. So yea, its not without risk. One glaring one is others trying to be helpful and grabbing your tx if you need to go get your plane cuz maybe you nosed over on the runway or ran off the side on landing....or whatever. You go to get the plane and someone else is holding your tx and gets started talking with another person......all the while not paying attention and bumps the throttle stick while you're trying to carrying your plane back to the pits. I had that happen a couple weeks ago. Thankfully I was carrying the plane nose away from me(common sense). But the guy had pushed full throttle and I'm trying to yell at him to shut it down.
I won't let anyone take or hold my tx anymore after that.
Also, my understanding of this incident, no stick movement was involved at all. It was radio glitch or something . Regardless how it occurred, it is another incident of a motor shooting up to full power unexpectedly. You are lucky you did not get hurt.
Just like having the ability to kill ignition power on the side of a gas engine being mandated by the AMA, some sort of protocol for electrics should be a rule as well. At least with an engine, they have to be turned smartly through compression to start. (not likely while carrying your plane) Where an electric can run up to full power on it's own.
Hellcat...yea I was resisting for a bit there more out of frustration then anything. Almost everytime I'm at the field, someone cracks a joke at my expense....even after I've made it clear its getting really old........I'm not referring to anyone in this thread either. Its just a general thing that happens very often from several different ppl......and that aggravation carried over into this thread regarding the prop. I feel like I'm back in high school sometimes when at the field and I have no idea why I get razzed so much. Ok....enough of the vent.
02-23-2013, 06:52 AM
#523
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
My friend's DO 335. It had been flown by the family of my friend on a single gas engine up front. My friend passed away and another member acquired the model and converted it to a dual electric setup, didn't go well.
02-23-2013, 08:04 AM
#524
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
ORIGINAL: SunDevilPilot
My friend's DO 335. It had been flown by the family of my friend on a single gas engine up front. My friend passed away and another member acquired the model and converted it to a dual electric setup, didn't go well.
My friend's DO 335. It had been flown by the family of my friend on a single gas engine up front. My friend passed away and another member acquired the model and converted it to a dual electric setup, didn't go well.
02-23-2013, 08:54 AM
#525
RE: ESM Dornier DO 335
It had been flown as a single gas engine with the same balance point as the electric version. Our guess was a thrustline issue with the rear motor.
SunDevilPilot
SunDevilPilot