vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Wash in! Crazy. If that is the case, maybe raising the ailerons a bit might be in order.

kahloq

Was trying to keep weight out of the tail since all reports were that people were having to put everything'snt up front to balance. Also, I don't know of any 3 blade PUSHER prop bigger then 16x10 and a power 60 can swing that just fine.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

You do not need a pusher if you reverse the rotation of the motor. Then, just make sure the prop is facing the right way.

kahloq

Not going to debate about it. It would be same if u put a 50cc gas up front and a 26-30cc in the rear. Same prop sizes in use except my 65 rimfire can easily swing a higher pitch and larger diameter if needed then any 50cc class gasser. The whole point was having the front motor do most of the work since, again, most reports were showing weight needed to be up front.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Frankly, I would be mainly concerned with all of those CA hinges. On a plane this large and heavy, I feel that is asking for trouble.

kahloq

Every single control surface has had hinge gap tape affixed in addition to ca or pin hinges used.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

The CA hinges should be ok.. Not my preference, but should be ok. That said, i have seen numerous chinese arfs from different manufacturers and suppliers who supplied CA hinges with the Arfs that didnt last more than a few (less than 12) flights before they began to fail. These were all gas and glow powered models though!

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Pinned as in pinned into the trailing edge of the wing, and leading edge of the control surface with toothpicks so they do not pull out under flight loads? Or pinned as in they have a true hinge with a pin? A hinge with a pin, (Klett style) are a great hinge, but improperly installed are probably worse than a CA hinge. I will never use a CA hinge on any aircraft that I plan to have around for any length of time, if it is over .60 glow. Seen too many failures. Just because the ARF supplies the parts and hardware, does not mean it is adequate.
Or maybe electrics can get away with a lot more. Either way, this aircraft is not worth the price difference in the hinge style to risk to a know failure point.

kahloq

There are true hinge pins on some of the surfaces, and as I said before, ALL surfaces have hinge tape in addition to whatever hinge is on any of them. They cannot pull out as a result.

jimkron

Time to stop talking and start flying.

kahloq

Originally had planned to try tomorrow, but winds are questionable (8-11mph) and currently projected as a direct crosswind to the runway. While I know the Do-335 is a tri gear and wouldnt have some of the same issues as a tail dragger, I do not need one wing trying to lift off first and flipping the plane over. It may change, but not looking promising. It's that time of year here in Colorado where it can be real calm or blowing like crazy.

If no fly tomorrow, then Ill just have time to fix issues on my stuka's motor and get some work done on my giant spitfire.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

no reason to rush it if you don't feel comfortable IMO!

glazier808

My Feedback: (1)

Don't let VG get you worked up Kahloq. You talked me through my heavy maiden(Gave me great advice)of my ESM 109E (18.25lbs) and I was fine. As a matter fact, as heavy as it is[X(]

it's one of my best flying planes.
Eat that.... ESM haters


As you told me... just keep your speed up on approach, until you feel comfortable. You've covered all your bases, so don't let others put doubts in your mind.

Pulling for ya buddie!

Also, I agree with Thomas, don't rush yourself if you're not ready.

Casey

VG,

It's fun to rib our buddies, But every once in a while, a little public support would be nice...

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I know, he will be fine. Looks to be a very nice day, so possibly we will see today.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Videos will be coming shortly. Needless to say, the hinges held up! lol The aircraft went home in the same number of pieces that it did, when it arrived at the field. Very impressive aircraft, and flies very nicely.

http://youtu.be/E0DR-GSmQTs

skillet92

NICE!! Looks like a good flying plane. I do have to ask did you say in the video it had a wind loading of 72 inch ozs?

kahloq

Well......

Winds decided to ignore the weather channel's forecast and stayed relatively mild most of the morning, so I packed the DO-335 up in the trailer and headed out to the field at 10am.
Got out to the field and winds were staying roughly 5-7mph from the south mostly(which is pretty much down the runway from the direction I prefer). So there wasn't much excuse.

Got her put together and did a follow up range test since I added new electrical components(the brake controller/valve).
She is equipped with an Orange RX 9 channel JR/spectrum rx with two satellites.

Several people where there to see the plane that usually aren't and that was nice as they got to drool over it LOL!!!! J/k...maybe.

Once the last 3d pilot decided to land it was time. Rechecked all surface movement and taxied her out to the runway. I took her all the way to the north end of the 800 ft runway as I and everyone else didn't know how much space she'd need. Started the roll out and she wanted to track a bit left, but was able to keep her straight, although to the left of the centerline. Got her up to full throttle........

She SEEMED to be doing ok.....

But then.............

..

It got light on the wheels and lifted a few inches using ground effect as a cushion.....

And then.......

Drat...she sank and touched the wheels to pavement for a brief second and then poof up into the air with a nice scale take off. I had about a 6mph head wind and it was suggested that if there was no wind, I might want to use partial flaps to help get her up ok. Not a bad idea....but..instead of using half flaps on the flap switch, I think Ill program in an elevator to flap mix that I can turn off. So this would give me a 4th position of the flaps since its a 3 position switch(off/mid/full). So for the elevator to flap mix, Im thinking 1/4 flap instead of 1/2 flaps.

Anyway....she's up and flying well. Needed a few clicks of left and a couple down. You can't tell as well from my video, but she has a really neat sound going by. The video doesn't do it justice. I also apologize for some of the video only seeing sky. My head cam only zooms in so much. I got the important part...the take off and some nice fly bys.

Now....here's the issues encountered:
After the 3rd lap, I did a gear check pass and only the nose came down. I was still at basically full throttle. Had no idea yet how slow it would safely fly so kept the power up. Well after another pass of trying to cycle the gear, a friend suggestion I slow down and put in some flaps to see if maybe it was air pressure along with the speed that was preventing the mains from coming down. Eventually got the gear to come down and was probably at just a little over half throttle with half flaps. Good thing too!!!!

Once the gear came down, it was now on the downwind leg so I could set up for landing. However, on the final turn to base, the motors hit LVC(low voltage cutoff)................ You can hear me say a bad 4 letter word!!!

I tried to cycle the power back on by dropping throttle to zero and back up...and had to do this continuously..........but....it wasn't looking good. Each time, I got maybe a 1 sec burst of power and that was it and she's sinking pretty fast.

Ill let the video tell the rest of the story. Hangs hat low....................

http://youtu.be/BFqxisdzPDE

glazier808

My Feedback: (1)

Well done! Great save...

Casey

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1L8TEd-6pw

My copy of the landing. My vid is not very good. Sorry

kahloq

Well.....from the start of the takeoff roll to LVC was 4 mins 45 secs. Admittedly, I held full throttle throughout the flight as I didn't know how slow it could safely fly. With throttle management once airborne, I might get closer to 6 mins. However, that's still not at all comfortable. I had thought using such large capacity 8000mah packs might have provided a decent flight time since the same motor on my D9 with a 21x14 can fly 6 mins at full throttle. Granted, the D9 is lighter.
So....I could try testing the 2 blade spinner from the D9 and use a slightly larger diameter, lower pitch 2 blade prop on the front, but, damn....I don't want to scavenge a working setup from another plane.
Maybe I just pick up a 22x12 3blade. A little less pitch, but a larger diameter should push more air at slightly lower throttle. Opinions?

BTW.....I did order a 2nd set of 8000mah 6s batteries, so I will at least be able to fly the plane twice each time I take it to the field. Each battery costs $105 from hobbykings US warehouse. Hell of a lot cheaper then say thunderpower.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Congrats!

It still baffles me why very few people ever take a model up high and learn its slow flight tendencies on a maiden. Im guilty of it with some models as well, but when there is a big question on it, its worth while IMO.

Good to see it flew, gives me motivation to finish a few of my nearly completed projects so i can start mine!

Ameisenbar

Hi Kahloq, Good maiden, albeit with a few teething problems, which I am sure you will be able to overcome. A finer pitch and larger diameter will give a lower top speed, but more important, it will give you better initial acceleration on takeoff. So it might well be worth a try. I suspect that you will be able to get a longer flight duration if you are able to throttle back a bit, but if course the tricky thing is finding out how much slower you can safely go.  Six minutes is a bit limiting, I had a Stik that would only do that long for about 80% charge usage, and you barely get up and do a few circuits before it is time to land. I guess the speed might have a bit to do with the gear not wanting to come down too. You would not have tried to put the gear down on the original at full speed.

Have you had a Wattmeter on the plant at all? It might help you to find the best prop, and also let you find out how much contribution the rear prop is making...ideally you want that to go flat at around the same time as the front. A two bladed prop of slightly larger diameter would have higher efficiency than the three bladed equivalent, but of course is not scale.

Anyway, best of luck with fine tuning things, and I hope we see some more videos soon.

John

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with this completely. As it is nice to know at what speed it is going to stall, and which wing will drop, or just drop the nose.

With this maiden, I understand why everything was done the way it was. Electrics add that issue of very limited flight time. It was even shorter than expected. (at least until everything is sorted out)

I certainly agree with the heavier warbirds, it is a good test to check the stall.

I will be very interested to see how your DO 335 project progresses, as I would like to see how the drive shaft is tackled with a mid engine setup. Gas power would certainly be my preference with this model, and I am hoping at some point to have one. Right now though, it is quite cost prohibitive to my budget.

kahloq

Ok.....so after action review. I did not really have time to test slower speed or test stall point.....so that's a mute point. I had 3 laps before trying to lower the gear and then that whole issue consumed some time and attention.

Now.....I've had a chance to put the batts on the charger. Out of 8000 mah, only 4800 were put back in each pack. I could understand if lvc happened and had to put in 6000+, but 4800 is barely 60%. Its possible the batts were getting warm so the voltages sagged lower then it should have. I'm sure the biela 20x14 prop didn't help things either as some people have said they are kinda inefficient. So that amp hungry prop and warm batts didn't do me any favors. I may try a mejlik 20x12 as I've heard they are more efficient.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Kahlog,
I understand about not having the time, the horten is very much the same way, 3-4 laps and its time to setup for landing. It really needs a turbine or two

It may be worthwhile just turning your LVC off in the esc, especially if your only using just over half of the battery and its kicking in. Its much better (cheaper) to cook some batteries than have to replace the model.