ESM Dornier DO 335
I would like to use electric for my DO-335 because of the low vibration and lack of a head/muffler sticking out of the front end. The disadvantage is weight. This is already a heavy airplane for its wing area, and I don't want to make it worse. I would like to just use one motor up front. Initially, in the rear I just will use a dummy spinner with no prop (so no drag). It seems that most of the discussions so far for electric power for this airplane have centered around using two motors. I have been looking into a single front motor (equivalent in power to a 50cc gas engine - e.g., Hacker A80-8)). I also want to have comfortable 10 minute flights (at whatever power level is needed for safe flight). To the best of my knowledge this will require 4 6-cell 5000-6000 batteries (2S2P) which will weigh about 7+ pounds. This would make the aiplane be 4-5 pounds heavier than if I used a 50cc gas engine (with 1.5 pounds = 24oz of gas in a full tank).
Does anyone have any suggestions for a one electric motor setup that would be strong enough to fly the airplane comfortably, but maybe only need about 4 pounds of batteries for a 10 minute flight at cruise power???
Thank you,
Brian
BCRC
I would like to just use one motor up front. Initially, in the rear I just will use a dummy spinner with no prop (so no drag). I have been looking into a single front motor (equivalent in power to a 50cc gas engine - e.g., Hacker A80-8)).
Brian
BCRC
Brian,
If you look back a few posts, you will see a huge freakin’ motor that was either posted for me or by me – I can’t remember. It is equivalent to a 100cc gas – smokin’… I may have to go that route but I like petro and I want to add a smoke system, bla, bla, bla. If I do go that route, it will be two motors; that one up front and a 160 in the rear.
This is ONLY my thoughts: I would not own a bird that is made for twin power and only use one. That’s the major part of the thrill, knowing you have a front and rear power source propelling your limited production bird through the air. To have a fake rear source defeats the entire concept of this type of design. Again, MY thoughts only. What works for you, Brian, works for you and that’s how it should be.
Mr DJ
Twin 160s will give you way more power that you need, but it would scream.
Jeff
Jeff,
That’s not correct. Go back to post 157/158. The 160 equals a 26cc gas, not a 40cc. A 26cc ain’t chit
Mr DJ
That's not correct. I have a Saito 36 cc in my Hanger 9 150 size P-51 now, but had an Eflite Power 160 in it prior. I got more power with the electric setup than the 36 cc gaser. The electric setup puts out 2800-3000 watts (about 3.75 HP) the 36 cc puts out 3.5 HP.
Also, the Saito is a 4-stroke so it puts out more power than an equivilant gas two stroker.
If you think two 160s it not enough you are wrong It will almost fly on once of these. I have flown a 24 lb. plane using one 160 electric motor and it was fast and not under powered at all. If you can get 110-120 watts per pound you will fly fine.
Jeff
Jeff,
I remember you telling me this before, and I was down with it until Jim provided the link to the Elite’s 160 data. It stated it was equivalent to a 160 glow engine – a 160 glow is a 26cc gas.
Nonetheless, I believe your bird flies somewhat fast, but I need a freakin’ rocket
Mr DJ
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Jeff,
I remember you telling me this before, and I was down with it until Jim provided the link to the Elite’s 160 data. It stated it was equivalent to a 160 glow engine – a 160 glow is a 26cc gas.
Nonetheless, I believe your bird flies somewhat fast,[img][/img] but I need a freakin’ rocket [img][/img]
Mr DJ
hence the difference. Also 2 stroke glow engines have more power than 4 stroke gas engines. Generally the 4 stroke will have more tourque. Just to clarify.
Remember that glow power and gas power are not comparible. Glow puts out more power per size than gas. The one exception if a 4-stroke gas engine. All I can tell you is from experience the 160 puts out 2800 to 3000 watts and 1 HP = 750 watts. That's a lot of power from electric. You would need a 40 cc or larger engine to get that much power. My P-51 flys slower that when it was electric. It does, however, fly about 5 times as long
Well if you go bigger it will definately be a rocket
Make sure you beef up the motor mounts and retracts before you fly too just to be safe.
Jeff
Im also running the smaller power 110 on 8s 5000 using the same 20x10 props.
BCRC...if your going electric.....and you mentioned carrying 4x 6s 5000 batteries to power ONE big honking motor plus having to purchase a super large 200-250amp esc......it would be cheaper to run two power 160's and two 100amp esc's using the same batteries. Plus, ground clearance might be an issue using a 100cc electric motor. You'd need something like a 28-30" diameter prop. If that motor fails, its dead stick time.
At least with two power 160's....if one motor or esc went south, you've still got another motor running to get you back home safely to the runway...and since they are inline...no asymetric thrust to deal with.
I agree with Mr DJ that a scale two engine plane...at least for me...is going to have two engines.
I have a 160 electric in my Hurricane and LA-7 and they are very fast. Only issue is low flight time (about 6 minutes). If you fly easy you could go 10 or 12, but I can never fly slow in a warbird and the DO-335 should be flown fast.
Jeff
Jeff, Grimmace, Kahloq, Brian – Gents…
If you say (from experience) that an electric 160 is stronger than a gas 26, I hear you. All I’m repeating is what the manufacture states and what the conversion charts equate to: a 160 is a 26cc. Now, as for having one 160 fly a 30lb bird, I don’t think so.
And how long does it take to charge 10S 5000 or 12S etc at the field? How many 6 to 10 minute flights can you get out of 4 hours at the field: 2, 3? I have major problems with that. I like to fly when I fly. Just me.
Brian, whatever you do, do it x 2
Mr DJ
Yes the conversion from cubic inches to cubic centermeters is correct, but the power output between glow and gas is much different. Same is true for electric. Electric, a least with Eflite motors, has been compared to glow not gas so it's more powerfull when you compare the two.
The Zenoah manual says the G26 will put out 1.71 to 2.3 HP depending on prop and other factors. If kW/rpm = 1.71/13000 and you do the math......
Horsepower:
The horsepower (hp) is a unit in the foot-pound-second (fps) or English system, sometimes used to express the rate at which mechanical energy is expended. It was originally defined as 550 foot-pounds per second (ft-lb/s). A power level of 1 hp is approximately equivalent to 746 watts (W) or 0.746 kilowatts (kW). To convert from horsepower to watts, multiply by 746. To convert from watts to horsepower, multiply by 0.00134. To convert from horsepower to kilowatts, multiply by 0.746. To convert from kilowatts to horsepower, multiply by 1.34.
If you use 2 HP for the G26 then you get 1500 watts. The Power 160 puts out at least 2800 watts with a 20-10 prop. That's almost double the G26. The Saito 36 puts out 3.5 HP or 2625 watts. That's about right because the power 160 is a little faster than the Saito 36 from my experience with my P-51. The Power 110s put out 2600 watts each with an 18-10 prop. So that's 5600 watts (Power 160s) or 5200 watts (Power 110s). So unless that plane ends up weighing more than 26 lbs one 110 will fly it once it's in the air and one 160 will fly it it it's not more than 28 lbs.
My 50 cc ESM P-40 came in at 26 lbs. with a DA-50, full cockpit, slidding canopy and retractable tail wheel. Much heavier setup than normal. The DA-50 is way too much motor for this plane and it takes off at 1/4 throttle no problem. I could easily fly this plane on one Power 160 if needed.
The electric motor setup makes a lot of sense and with the cheaper Zippy packs and large capcity packs you can get some good long flights now.
Jeff
Jeff, my Man… Holly chit, Batman… My head is still spinnin’ from all those numbers you threw out at me. I raise the white flag. Thank you for all that good data.
Jim… a real flight of your Phoenix, please. I need to see those two 160s in action.
Mr DJ
I also have an inventory of large batteries....so....I could fly the DO-335 on two 160's using 4x 5s 5000 packs twice without recharging anything.
As for flying the plane at over 30 pounds on just one power 160? Once its airborne...yes it could do it, but at full throttle. It'd be enough tog et you back to the field...but the point of electric really is not to ahve to deal with an engine out(plus simplicity and no mess)
I taxied the plane for the first time yesturday with the 2 Eflite 160s on 10s per motor swinging Xoar 20-10 props.
Two adults could barely hold the plane....at half throttle.[X(]
The problem for me right now is not power...it's CG. The plane is VERY tail heavy. I moved everything forward as much as I could and still had to add 2.5 pounds of weight...just to get the plane to balance ON THE WHEELS...which I believe is way aft of the CG. Yikes! I'm going to play with the CG tonight and will report back. I'm not surprised...just look at this thing. There is a large mass of airplane to the rear of the CG plus a motor, prop, spinner, and speed control. I set the batteries for the rear motor at the front of the main compartment. The other batts are just behind the front firewall. I have a bad feeling on this one. Reminds me of trying to balance a Japanese Zero.[]...only worse.
Jim
Hey All,
I taxied the plane for the first time yesturday with the 2 Eflite 160s on 10s per motor swinging Xoar 20-10 props.
Two adults could barely hold the plane....at half throttle.[X(]
The problem for me right now is not power...it's CG. The plane is VERY tail heavy. I moved everything forward as much as I could and still had to add 2.5 pounds of weight...just to get the plane to balance ON THE WHEELS...which I believe is way aft of the CG. Yikes! I'm going to play with the CG tonight and will report back. I'm not surprised...just look at this thing. There is a large mass of airplane to the rear of the CG plus a motor, prop, spinner, and speed control. I set the batteries for the rear motor at the front of the main compartment. The other batts are just behind the front firewall. I have a bad feeling on this one. Reminds me of trying to balance a Japanese Zero.[]...only worse.
Jim
Mr DJ