BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

Actually I came to this post because The Pica WACO is one of my faverite planes. Like I said in the beginning my best friend has one built and one in the box 1/5 scale.

Statements like: I would rather fly a hand launch Testor's glider than an ARF WACO. If folks are too darn lazy to build this one, they need to do without. Made by Stickbuilder aka BILL

Those type of statements set me off. You can say my statements are ignorant if you want...

Only kit's I have built totally is a PT-40 Trainer... and finished off a started Byron's P-47 thunderbolt... Sold the Thunderbolt for $1600 To fund the building of my arf Wildhare Ultimate.

I have worked on a Topflight 1/5 scale Corsair... 1/6 sale coirsair top flight. 1/4 scale byrons Pitts... Not mine just helped with the build... and learned from them.

With the help of my best friend who has more time then me, We are building a Lazy ace from Plans 96" wings. Picked up a partially framed scratch build this spring. It will be my winter project.

Jim_McIntyre

Enjoy the build bull, we all have our trigger statements....

I'm always amazed at how emotionally charged ARF users are, it's almost like they feel a need to defend their choice not to build.[sm=confused.gif]

Personally, I can admit to owning an ARF (Kyosho Pitts) but, I just don't see the attraction. I just can't seem to find pleasure in enjoying someone else's build, especially if it's flawed (too often the case). What's more, they just don't seem to have any soul, kind of like store-bought cookies compared to Grandma's home made cookies, simply no comparison.

What's worse, many are an accident waiting to happen, not only through bad design/build but more due to substandard hardware of late....

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

Sullivan does make Flex tanks that can be formed with a heat gun but they are not GAS proof you need to use nitro. For those interested... Check out the new lighter 26cc gas engine by Birelli and BCMA they have tons of power and will fly this size plane scale... They are very light weight... and smalll in sz. Noise level is about the same as a large nitro.

chris1949

I also take offense to your statement I love to build them just as much as I like to fly them.Nothing gives me more pleasure than fly a new airplane and hardly have to trim it.The ultimate I built this winter required three clicks down elevator to trim perfectly.I also raised 3 children gave them all the education they wanted,restored a 1965 ford mustang for my wife a 1957 chevy,1975Corvette,1977 fiat spyder .And still managed to work 50 hours a week at a real job.The thing I like most about guys who buy arfs is when they ding they give them to me because they dont know how to fix them because they never built one. I never belittle a person for buying and flying arfs its just not me and yes I am a dying breed but how dare you pass judgement on me.To use a phrase my father made to me many years ago"theres no such thing as I dont have the time,if you want to you will make time". have a nice day.Chris

Stickbuilder

Yes, Bull, we all have our hot buttons. Mine happens to be when someone wants to compare an offshore built ARF to a hand crafted scale model. True, it takes me at least a year to complete one of my WACO's (and I say mine, due to all the modifications that I have learned are necessary in order to make the PICA fifth scale kit into a viable model). My models are not cookie cutter flying machines, but each one has a true personality. I power all of my WACO's with the OS FT160 twin. No part of the engine protrudes from the cowl except the two exhaust outlets and one small hole for the needle valve extension. I have yet to see a gasser that did not require an ugly cut on the cowl. If you have found one then more power to you. It's still hard to beat the sound of a twin four stroke pulling a load.

I still stand by my statement regarding the ARFing of this kit. I think that COX has done a grave injustice to the history of this fine kit. Now anyone with the bucks can have one of these, and yes, in my view that does cheapen the value of the ownership of this model airplane. Sorry pal, I just can't get all that wound up over owning a model that someone else has make. I tried one ARF, and sold it as soon as I had done the trim flight on it. I sold it complete with engine and radio gear. It was the H-9 P-47 with an OS 91 and JR 8103 system. I just couldn't get that excited over it.

I will continue to spend the extra time required to build my WACO's (I have enough kits stashed to last me the rest of my life) Ans as to my wife being supportive and understanding, the WACO that I am currently building is for her. Yep, it will be her airplane. She does not build, but she flys just fine.

Bill, AMA 4720

chris1949

Boy I guess we raised a few hackles with those two emails oh well crap happens they will get over it smooth flying and hold the flair Chris

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

For more info on the BCMA 26cc it's the eqivalent in power to a stong 120 FS or 150 SAITO. Weighs 36oz including muffler. SZ from bottom of crank where the bolts go through to bolt to the firewall to the top of spark plug is 5 5/8". Easier yet here is the web page with dementions if interested... It's small and gas has a nice sound to it too... Just for those looking for something different.

http://www.bcmaengines.com
http://www.brillelli.com/brillelli_003.htm

Both have great customer service.

Like I said I came to this site to see what was going on with one of my fav kits the PICA WACO... I'll continue to fly and build kit's and ARFs. They both have their place and qualitys. Yes, I fix my own when they get nicked up.

Jim_McIntyre

Ok Bull, I don't think anyone is attacking/defending anymore.

Good info, it doesn't look like it would be too difficult to modify the nose of the Waco to hide one of those behind a dummy engine, nice idea, how does tha balance work out with this setup? I know my 1/6 came out with no need for lead in the nose running an OS .90 (surprised me all to he double hockeysticks). My 1/5 will be sporting my old faithful OS 120 from my fuel-soaked, retired Taylorcraft, I hope I get as lucky with the CG but I doubt it even though I tried to keep the weight down in the empenange (lightening holes etc.).

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

The gasser I was talking about weighs 35 / 36 oz. An os 120 weighs right around 33.5oz with stock muffler so the difference is around 2.5oz. My best friend has a saito 180 on his and it balanced out fine and weighs about the same as an OS 120. Difference is cost of fuel... His saito call for 20 /20 and at $25 a gallon vs $3 it's quite a difference. Things you can do with gas is move the tank back on the CG unlike standard nitro you need the tank on the level with the carb which usually means mounting it up to the nose in the center of the firewall in front of the CG... thus making the plane nose heavy when full... 14oz of gas with a 25cc will run for close to 20 -30 min... Nitro you will be thinking of bringing it down after 8-10 min


I don't think you will be too bad with the OS 120 on the nose it weighs close to the same as the saito 180. You might have to add a little lead. My friend over built his a little and came out heavy, but still flys and lands like it's on pillows. He has done some mods to it since this photo...

Jim_McIntyre

Nice pics, we need more biplanes at the fields.[8D]

Yeah, I run gas (Syclone 38) in my Tigermoth, I'm aware of the economy, I just can't get the sweet sound of four strokes out of my head. I have this image of my last Waco put-putting over the threshold with little puffs of smoke curling out the back. [8D]

chris1949

Bull you make allot of statements about kit builders in that blog I have scratch built and kit built.I love royal kits they are second to none,and quite frankly I dont think there are many modlers left that can get one together right.I never saw much difference in a kit or scratch built about 1 weeks time if that.I copied a duelist from a friend of mine and finished it 6 months before he did.Also i dont use iron on coverings silkspan on planking silk on framework dope or automotive finishes.My royal P51 is 28 years old and still ticking I am in the process of refinishing it right now its in primer.I did it way back then as cripes a mighty 3rd.Now they are everywhere but thats ok because all those nitwit arfers dont realize the name goes on the left side only.Keep flying your plastic bags,Ill build mine,hope the 1/2 ounce of glue holds Chris

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

Sorry to the rest here... I did move on and thought it was over....


Your right Chris;
I apologize to you personally... I let it go and started to get back to the forum... But you can't let it go...

You are the king... Nobody builds better then you... I love your builds... Yes, cutting all those ribs and sticks only takes you a week longer on a scratch build... with all your skill... 6 months to build a scale top end model... I know ... You have to have a degree in wood working to build a kit... I don't have the skill... I'm a ARFER flying my Plastic no glue crappy covering peices of s8%. If we were side by side at a show no one would turn an eye to my models... I hope someday I get to meet you at a show to see all you beautiful Builds... Unfortunatly there not posted in you profile or in the Gallery... But I'm sure something of that quality deserves to been seen in a musium not in this form or gallery with all those ARF's... I'm sure you have never had one crash either... I mean 28yr and it's still going strong... You are the king... Great thank you for setting me staight... Yours truly nitwit arfer ( as you state. )

PS: The name on the right side is there because it helps balance the plane... Them damn arfs arent balanced very well either...

You just gave me an Idea... I'm going to try and find a nice arf... Strip the covering put some silkspan on it and pass it off as a kit like yours... Thanks for the idea...


For the others who can read.... Just making jest...

Thank you stickbuilder for being civil and getting back to the forum... I truly appoligize to you because I did try...

Stickbuilder

Bull, Not a problem. I am in the process of building the wheel pants from Balsa and ply. The aftermarket wants 80 bucks for a pair of fiberglass reproductions. Building your own from wood takes about a week of an hour each evening, and although it would be easier to whip out the plastic, and order the parts, the joy of knowing that you did something difficult makes the build worthwhile. I really do wish that you would try one of these fine kits before they are all gone. Owning one of these WACO's is more than the flying. You are the owner of a unique piece of history when you build one of these. Soon, they will all be gone. It's a darn shame, but I did try to purchase the rights to the kit (kit only) from COX. I was very politely turned down. I was going to use one of the major kit cutters to replicate the kit using modern cutting methods, and keep this one alive. Sorry to say this is not to be the case, and another wonderful kit is lost for all time, only to be replaced by a soulless ARF of the same plane. Keep em flying.

Bill, AMA 4720

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

Stickbuilder;

My best friend like I said has an extra stored away. I helped him get it because he also if something ever happened to his wanted a spare to have to make scratch parts... He told me if I ever wanted to build one I could use his plans and kit as a reference point... I still have tons of work to do on my Lazy Ace Biplane... With a 96" wingspan it's a pain to move around and work on... 72" is a nice sz for working on and handeling...

Here is a pic of my BYRONS P-47 thunderbold which I sold... 88" wing span with a Sachs 4.2 on it. Was a nice plane but super heavy and a flying brick. Love the plane but want to start over and build a lighter model.

Stickbuilder

I am going to take one of the kits of the WACO (Ihave several of them) and scan each part. There are no parts on the plans, so you either must redraw the parts by tracing, or by scanning. I will have an exact template for each part. I would be happy to make a copy for you , and then you can build this one using the plans from your friend. You can get the cowl and wheel pants from Fiberglass Specialties.

Bill, AMA 4720

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

That's a great offer... Thank You. If I was going to do it I was going to trace... Your way is sooooo much better... I've used Fiberglass specialties before... I have been deciding on what COWL to use for my Lazy ace. Let me know when you gt to doing it....

Jim_McIntyre

Uh, Bill ... I would be interested as well ... I should have done this as I was building mine ... a little late now at the painting stage.

Stickbuilder

There are only about 10 sheets of die crunched parts to scan. It will probably be this winter before I fire up the bandsaw to finish the cutting of the semi punched parts. Once they are cut free and identified, it is a small matter to scan them and I can put them on file, and e-mail them. It's tough when you start cutting the parts from the master sheet and don't identify the parts first. Not to mention that PICA often got just a little mixed up with the printout in the manual (another joke) and what was actually on the sheets. W-5 vs W-20 comes to mind. W-11 and W-11A also were reversed if I remember correctly. Some of the top fuse formers were not in the correct place as well. Oh well, we will get it sorted out.

Bill, AMA 4720

Stickbuilder

For the cowl on your lazy ace, Try the housewares department at Wal-Mart, or Big Lots (if you have one) there are some lightweight aluminum mixing bowls that make great cowls for radials and you can get them for very little money. I have one that I used on a Bipe, and only paid 3 bucks for it. Stan's wanted about 10 times that much for a glass cowl.

Bill, AMA 4720

BULL-RCU

My Feedback: (15)

Neat idea

Stickbuilder

Got the wheel pants primered and mounted tonight (Friday 8-18-2006) Holy crap Batman...This thing is getting bigger than I remember. Or is it that my shop in our new place is just smaller? I'll have some pics to post as soon as the Batteries charge up for the camera. It will probably be Saturday afternoon. I have several things to do at the Dealership in the morning. The 2007 models are really starting to come in, and that always creates a whole new set of problems. I'm not using the plastic aileron covers that PICA supplied with this kit, but am gluing 1/16" square strips to the sheeted aileron surfaces. When covered with Koverall, doped and painted, they should look just like corrugated surfaces. We'll see.

Bill, AMA 4720

chris1949

Hi Bill just about ready to fly the waco hope to get the pictures to you,you have been a great help.I must admit you are a real gentleman on how you handled bull.If I move to Florida I will be sure to buy a car from you.As always hold the flair smooyh landings Chris

Stickbuilder

Shucks, you don't have to move here to do that...We sell them to visitors daily.... Bull is okay, I really want to see him enjoy the build on this model. It is truly a humbling experience. I have done several of them, and each one throws me a different curve ball. It seems as if each kit has it's own personality. With this one, the landing gear had to be beaten into submission. The last one had perfect gear, but the cowl did not want to cooperate. Go figure.

Bill, AMA 4720

Jim_McIntyre

You can say that again. To make it worse, I was the second owner of the kit (at least). Quite a few parts missing, some key parts being the ribs through the taper on both wings, I had to scratch them using the 'tweening' method, took forever to get it right, but it is now.[8D]

S'funny, I haven't built the ailerons yet, I've been eying up those plastic covers, they look pretty heavy and I'm sure it'll be difficult to match the paint, I'll probably go with the strip method as well....

Stickbuilder

I weightd the plastic overlay's. Looks as though using the square stock, and installing about a bazillion of these little suckers, and after covering with Koverall, I should be saving about 1.5 oz per aileron. The plastic is not heavy, but the body filler required to smooth out the transition is.

Bill, AMA 4720