Did anyone else notice that AMA ran a deficit last year?
04-12-2020, 06:57 AM
#26
Moderator
I don't instruct to help the AMA make money, although it does. I instruct to help my club grow. If the AMA benefits too, that's great.
On the topic of getting young people involved: kids still live model planes. I teach a middle school engineering course, which includes a flight unit. The kids have a blast with their gliders. I'd say the enthusiasm is higher for that project than any other. I wasn't around during the AMA's growth days, but from what I have read, the AMA focused on marketing itself to kids. They advertised in hardware stores and toy shops where modeling supplies were sold. The hook was information- plans and instructional articles along with organizing competitions. It made a lot of sense on those pre-internet days. Flite Test is using a very similar strategy, albeit a mostly online one, to catch kids attention and make money.
It seems that AMA's growth plan now is to depends on the clubs to grow with adult members and depend on the insurance requirements to get dues. It's more of a passive, some might even say parasitic strategy. So perhaps the AMA should return to its roots, offering information and programs to youth organizations and advertising in the toy sections of stores?
On the topic of getting young people involved: kids still live model planes. I teach a middle school engineering course, which includes a flight unit. The kids have a blast with their gliders. I'd say the enthusiasm is higher for that project than any other. I wasn't around during the AMA's growth days, but from what I have read, the AMA focused on marketing itself to kids. They advertised in hardware stores and toy shops where modeling supplies were sold. The hook was information- plans and instructional articles along with organizing competitions. It made a lot of sense on those pre-internet days. Flite Test is using a very similar strategy, albeit a mostly online one, to catch kids attention and make money.
It seems that AMA's growth plan now is to depends on the clubs to grow with adult members and depend on the insurance requirements to get dues. It's more of a passive, some might even say parasitic strategy. So perhaps the AMA should return to its roots, offering information and programs to youth organizations and advertising in the toy sections of stores?
04-12-2020, 07:42 AM
#27
I wonder if anyone has ever given any thought to the fact that the profit oriented industry as taken advantage of the club volunteer flight instructors for decades. By definition, volunteers are supposed to do for free to financially benefit the industry. Maybe many club members finally caught on. If the industry wants a hands-on promotional sales force, let them hire people to do that. All other types of the industry has paid salesmen, why not the profit making RC aeromodeling industry? That's precisely why the hobby is and has been on a downward spiral for decades. Maybe many members are tired of being suckers for the industry.
Since I began participating in this hobby decades ago, one of the attractions for me was the passion and graciousness of the folks who were already involved in the hobby. The fact that they were so passionate that the individual members had freely donated their own time, money and sweat equity into building a flying facility to responsibly enjoy their hobby and to share it with the public and others that were interested in participating. From day one, it was the collective passion for the hobby that drove those members to share and engage with others that WAS the hobby. The "industry" was no different than any other, it was born from demand for the products and services that they offered. I was fortunate to have a couple of high-quality, mom and pop type hobby shops in my area that supported my hobby needs. Both of the proprietors of these shops were actively engaged in the hobby themselves and were very experienced modelers themselves, who would freely share all of their expertise with anyone who asked, many times finishing up their business day only to meet me at the field for a lesson, or to open the clubhouse in preparation for the club meeting or potluck dinner. I can assure you, neither of those proprietors retired wealthy (in financial terms, anyway). Club instructors were generally the more experienced modelers who had, "been there, done that" and wanted to give back some of what the hobby had given to them and ensure the future of the hobby by passing along their knowledge and skills. I do not know a single instructor (myself included) that ever felt that we were even remotely being, "suckers for the industry". Conversely, I believe we all felt our hobby shops were there to support our hobby first, with scraping out a meager living being secondary. This was also a time where the, "senior" members would support the "greater good" by teaching and instilling the AMA safety code and responsible operation of our aircraft. I was particularly impressed by this because it felt very relaxed and not rule and authority-based, rather it was based on respect for the other members, the non-flying public, full-scale aircraft operations, respect for the hobby itself and the fact that in order to keep our FREEDOM to enjoy our hobby relatively unrestricted, that we had to be good stewards to all who did NOT partake in our hobby and how our operations might affect them.
All of this went out the window when the AMA stopped recognizing that they were there to serve the hundreds of thousands of volunteer members who, collectively WERE the AMA, NOT the elected officers and EC. At some point that, "good ole boy" culture trickled down from Muncie and infected the local club structure. Instead of club elections being more of "volunteering" a member to take his turn as a club officer, elections became a popularity contest and power grab and sucked much of the fun out of the club culture. It became a, helicopters vs. fixed-wing, 3D vs. scale, giant-scale vs. glow, scale vs. fun-fly type thing and each of those factions would try and get THEIR candidate elected, so their sub-group would gain glorified status within the club ranks. This division of our clubs served to completely disrupt our collective unity and distract our focus from the greater good into a culture of selfishness and using the club as a way to further personal agendas. I believe that the shift from a unified community of responsible modelers into a, "bigger is better", power-grab organization, is what really killed the Feds' respect for our organization. The AMA once had the respect of the Feds, as is witnessed by our ability to work with the FCC in the 80's to secure our own, protected frequencies. If we had not been able to do that then, it would have been paramount to the extinction of our hobby then, much like it is now.
United we stand, divided we fall. Too much division these days, in ALL aspects of our lives. We better wake up and learn how to stop being selfish, in order that the greater good is served, not just our own, selfish and narrow wants.
Regards,
Astro
04-12-2020, 08:04 AM
#28
My perspective is a bit different.
Since I began participating in this hobby decades ago, one of the attractions for me was the passion and graciousness of the folks who were already involved in the hobby. The fact that they were so passionate that the individual members had freely donated their own time, money and sweat equity into building a flying facility to responsibly enjoy their hobby and to share it with the public and others that were interested in participating. From day one, it was the collective passion for the hobby that drove those members to share and engage with others that WAS the hobby. The "industry" was no different than any other, it was born from demand for the products and services that they offered. I was fortunate to have a couple of high-quality, mom and pop type hobby shops in my area that supported my hobby needs. Both of the proprietors of these shops were actively engaged in the hobby themselves and were very experienced modelers themselves, who would freely share all of their expertise with anyone who asked, many times finishing up their business day only to meet me at the field for a lesson, or to open the clubhouse in preparation for the club meeting or potluck dinner. I can assure you, neither of those proprietors retired wealthy (in financial terms, anyway). Club instructors were generally the more experienced modelers who had, "been there, done that" and wanted to give back some of what the hobby had given to them and ensure the future of the hobby by passing along their knowledge and skills. I do not know a single instructor (myself included) that ever felt that we were even remotely being, "suckers for the industry". Conversely, I believe we all felt our hobby shops were there to support our hobby first, with scraping out a meager living being secondary. This was also a time where the, "senior" members would support the "greater good" by teaching and instilling the AMA safety code and responsible operation of our aircraft. I was particularly impressed by this because it felt very relaxed and not rule and authority-based, rather it was based on respect for the other members, the non-flying public, full-scale aircraft operations, respect for the hobby itself and the fact that in order to keep our FREEDOM to enjoy our hobby relatively unrestricted, that we had to be good stewards to all who did NOT partake in our hobby and how our operations might affect them.
All of this went out the window when the AMA stopped recognizing that they were there to serve the hundreds of thousands of volunteer members who, collectively WERE the AMA, NOT the elected officers and EC. At some point that, "good ole boy" culture trickled down from Muncie and infected the local club structure. Instead of club elections being more of "volunteering" a member to take his turn as a club officer, elections became a popularity contest and power grab and sucked much of the fun out of the club culture. It became a, helicopters vs. fixed-wing, 3D vs. scale, giant-scale vs. glow, scale vs. fun-fly type thing and each of those factions would try and get THEIR candidate elected, so their sub-group would gain glorified status within the club ranks. This division of our clubs served to completely disrupt our collective unity and distract our focus from the greater good into a culture of selfishness and using the club as a way to further personal agendas. I believe that the shift from a unified community of responsible modelers into a, "bigger is better", power-grab organization, is what really killed the Feds' respect for our organization. The AMA once had the respect of the Feds, as is witnessed by our ability to work with the FCC in the 80's to secure our own, protected frequencies. If we had not been able to do that then, it would have been paramount to the extinction of our hobby then, much like it is now.
United we stand, divided we fall. Too much division these days, in ALL aspects of our lives. We better wake up and learn how to stop being selfish, in order that the greater good is served, not just our own, selfish and narrow wants.
Regards,
Astro
Since I began participating in this hobby decades ago, one of the attractions for me was the passion and graciousness of the folks who were already involved in the hobby. The fact that they were so passionate that the individual members had freely donated their own time, money and sweat equity into building a flying facility to responsibly enjoy their hobby and to share it with the public and others that were interested in participating. From day one, it was the collective passion for the hobby that drove those members to share and engage with others that WAS the hobby. The "industry" was no different than any other, it was born from demand for the products and services that they offered. I was fortunate to have a couple of high-quality, mom and pop type hobby shops in my area that supported my hobby needs. Both of the proprietors of these shops were actively engaged in the hobby themselves and were very experienced modelers themselves, who would freely share all of their expertise with anyone who asked, many times finishing up their business day only to meet me at the field for a lesson, or to open the clubhouse in preparation for the club meeting or potluck dinner. I can assure you, neither of those proprietors retired wealthy (in financial terms, anyway). Club instructors were generally the more experienced modelers who had, "been there, done that" and wanted to give back some of what the hobby had given to them and ensure the future of the hobby by passing along their knowledge and skills. I do not know a single instructor (myself included) that ever felt that we were even remotely being, "suckers for the industry". Conversely, I believe we all felt our hobby shops were there to support our hobby first, with scraping out a meager living being secondary. This was also a time where the, "senior" members would support the "greater good" by teaching and instilling the AMA safety code and responsible operation of our aircraft. I was particularly impressed by this because it felt very relaxed and not rule and authority-based, rather it was based on respect for the other members, the non-flying public, full-scale aircraft operations, respect for the hobby itself and the fact that in order to keep our FREEDOM to enjoy our hobby relatively unrestricted, that we had to be good stewards to all who did NOT partake in our hobby and how our operations might affect them.
All of this went out the window when the AMA stopped recognizing that they were there to serve the hundreds of thousands of volunteer members who, collectively WERE the AMA, NOT the elected officers and EC. At some point that, "good ole boy" culture trickled down from Muncie and infected the local club structure. Instead of club elections being more of "volunteering" a member to take his turn as a club officer, elections became a popularity contest and power grab and sucked much of the fun out of the club culture. It became a, helicopters vs. fixed-wing, 3D vs. scale, giant-scale vs. glow, scale vs. fun-fly type thing and each of those factions would try and get THEIR candidate elected, so their sub-group would gain glorified status within the club ranks. This division of our clubs served to completely disrupt our collective unity and distract our focus from the greater good into a culture of selfishness and using the club as a way to further personal agendas. I believe that the shift from a unified community of responsible modelers into a, "bigger is better", power-grab organization, is what really killed the Feds' respect for our organization. The AMA once had the respect of the Feds, as is witnessed by our ability to work with the FCC in the 80's to secure our own, protected frequencies. If we had not been able to do that then, it would have been paramount to the extinction of our hobby then, much like it is now.
United we stand, divided we fall. Too much division these days, in ALL aspects of our lives. We better wake up and learn how to stop being selfish, in order that the greater good is served, not just our own, selfish and narrow wants.
Regards,
Astro
Astro, I believe you have hit on a big reason why things have changed so much. I recall when the hobby and the local clubs ran exactly as you remember them being back in the day. There are still a few groups of people enjoying clubs in much the same fashion but unfortunately they are few and far between. The local hobby shop is nearly extinct and many of the local shops that sell RC aircraft are doing so as one small part of their product lineup. It has gone from an RC shop owner eeking out a meager living to becoming impossible for a well stocked RC hobby shop to turn a profit at all.
Too many factions, too much division, rather than embracing the fact that there are more way to enjoy RC flight now than ever before.
I truly believe if the hobby could return to the kind of passion and selfless giving of our time to teach others and pass that passion on to our youth things could be very different.
The people at Flite test seem to understand this and offer the excitement of RC flight in a very affordable manner to young and old alike who wish to enjoy our great hobby. There is still interest, the thrill of controlling an RC aircraft is still exciting. Alas I'm not sure it is possible to drive things back to our roots, but the hope is still there.
04-12-2020, 08:35 AM
#29
Flite test is on the right track and something of what I had in mind. Rather than lamenting about the good old days, here's some food for thought.
Imagine if the aeromodeling industry had their own hands-on flight promoter/instructors, who were also AMA members. These industry members would have readily available flight promoter/instructors like auto dealers have salesmen. For example, Hobby Town USA would have instructors in every one of their stores. Also, a RC simulator kiosk setup to give customers a taste of RC flying and to provide training in store. Perhaps their own flying field in many places. They could train people to be flight instructors, maybe for a fee or for free. All store owners could require all customers to join AMA. Something on the order of Horizon Hobby's Flight School program. Wouldn't that help to attract more members for all clubs? Also, that would take the load off of club instructors. Win-win for everyone.
Imagine if the aeromodeling industry had their own hands-on flight promoter/instructors, who were also AMA members. These industry members would have readily available flight promoter/instructors like auto dealers have salesmen. For example, Hobby Town USA would have instructors in every one of their stores. Also, a RC simulator kiosk setup to give customers a taste of RC flying and to provide training in store. Perhaps their own flying field in many places. They could train people to be flight instructors, maybe for a fee or for free. All store owners could require all customers to join AMA. Something on the order of Horizon Hobby's Flight School program. Wouldn't that help to attract more members for all clubs? Also, that would take the load off of club instructors. Win-win for everyone.
Last edited by fliers1; 04-12-2020 at 08:39 AM.
04-12-2020, 10:32 AM
#30
Flite test is on the right track and something of what I had in mind. Rather than lamenting about the good old days, here's some food for thought.
Imagine if the aeromodeling industry had their own hands-on flight promoter/instructors, who were also AMA members. These industry members would have readily available flight promoter/instructors like auto dealers have salesmen. For example, Hobby Town USA would have instructors in every one of their stores. Also, a RC simulator kiosk setup to give customers a taste of RC flying and to provide training in store. Perhaps their own flying field in many places. They could train people to be flight instructors, maybe for a fee or for free. All store owners could require all customers to join AMA. Something on the order of Horizon Hobby's Flight School program. Wouldn't that help to attract more members for all clubs? Also, that would take the load off of club instructors. Win-win for everyone.
Imagine if the aeromodeling industry had their own hands-on flight promoter/instructors, who were also AMA members. These industry members would have readily available flight promoter/instructors like auto dealers have salesmen. For example, Hobby Town USA would have instructors in every one of their stores. Also, a RC simulator kiosk setup to give customers a taste of RC flying and to provide training in store. Perhaps their own flying field in many places. They could train people to be flight instructors, maybe for a fee or for free. All store owners could require all customers to join AMA. Something on the order of Horizon Hobby's Flight School program. Wouldn't that help to attract more members for all clubs? Also, that would take the load off of club instructors. Win-win for everyone.
Simply put, this is a hobby. The vast majority of people do it for the pure enjoyment of it. If enough people are enjoying the hobby and need hobby goods, there will always be someone that will step up and fill that niche. Just like golf, the vast majority just enjoy doing it, but there will always be a few that excel and become professional, and a few others who will find a way to monetize their hobby, but the hobby does not exist BECAUSE of those that are making a living from it, it exists becasue the MAJORITY just enjoy doing it. Once you start REQUIRING membership, or mandating this or that, it will turn people off. It is the, "build it and they will come" thoery. Anything worth doing ALWAYS begins with a select few that were the pioneers, who invested their blood, sweat, tears, knowledge, trials and tribulations AND THEN were willing to FREELY share it with other, like-minded individuals simply because it is their PASSION (not for fame, notoriety, money, glory, etc). THAT is EXACTLY how modeling (and the AMA) were born and grew into what they once were. Once the freedom and individualism are taken away, there goes the bond that once tied us together. Lose sight of that and the success disappears. Take away the value and appeal and MANDATE membership under the guise that leadership supports the membership instead of the other way around and all will disappear in short order.
Astro
Last edited by astrohog; 04-12-2020 at 10:40 AM.
04-14-2020, 06:12 PM
#32
Moderator
I don't believe the AMA has declined because of strategic decisions they've made. Interests ebb and flow.
We'd probably all agree that the AMA's golden age was the 1950s to around 1990. Who were the big heroes of WWII? Mostly the pilots. Plus the space race was the cutting edge of technology and uber cool. Kids dreamed of flying, so they built models. Many of them grew up and kept pursuing modeling as adults, creating the healthy adult membership the AMA enjoyed until around the year 2000.
Here the news flash: The AMA was already in decline in the late 80s. Its median age was steadily increasing, and most of its youth growth was the children of current members. The AMA hadn't changed it strategy, but kids were scratching the itch to build and create in different ways.
I can say for certain, as a middle school tech and engineering teacher, there are still plenty of kids who love to build and see their creations work. But in the 90's the digital age had hit and so a lot of those kids turned to building website and learning to code. It's really the same type of person, just a different way to express those interests.
If the AMA is smart, they will start marketing to a fresh new group of kids that are coming up whose parents are reacting against electronics. There is a strong wave of unplugging and getting kids' hands busy, and parents are willing to spend money on it. I could see free flight and CL making a comeback, along with FPV and new autonomous creations taking off too. I'd say the AMA has the best opportunity now to create genuine youth growth since probably the 1960s.
We'd probably all agree that the AMA's golden age was the 1950s to around 1990. Who were the big heroes of WWII? Mostly the pilots. Plus the space race was the cutting edge of technology and uber cool. Kids dreamed of flying, so they built models. Many of them grew up and kept pursuing modeling as adults, creating the healthy adult membership the AMA enjoyed until around the year 2000.
Here the news flash: The AMA was already in decline in the late 80s. Its median age was steadily increasing, and most of its youth growth was the children of current members. The AMA hadn't changed it strategy, but kids were scratching the itch to build and create in different ways.
I can say for certain, as a middle school tech and engineering teacher, there are still plenty of kids who love to build and see their creations work. But in the 90's the digital age had hit and so a lot of those kids turned to building website and learning to code. It's really the same type of person, just a different way to express those interests.
If the AMA is smart, they will start marketing to a fresh new group of kids that are coming up whose parents are reacting against electronics. There is a strong wave of unplugging and getting kids' hands busy, and parents are willing to spend money on it. I could see free flight and CL making a comeback, along with FPV and new autonomous creations taking off too. I'd say the AMA has the best opportunity now to create genuine youth growth since probably the 1960s.
04-15-2020, 03:55 AM
#33
A few years ago, I assisted a tech teacher in the Barker, NY high school with building and teaching RC flying for his tech transportation class. I would go to his first period class during mid spring and give flight instruction one day a week. We would fly on an abandoned full scale runway which was on school property. Many years ago, aeronautics was taught in the school. His entire class got stick time on one the LT-40 trainers they built. They built over half dozen LT-40 kits. Most of the kids learned quite a bit even during one lesson. One day, the school superintendent and principal showed up and asked if they could fly. I gave both a few minutes of flight time apiece. Whatever the tech teacher asks for, he has no trouble getting it. One student learned so much within the short time he flew, that he is now the instructor. This program is still going strong. Everyone in every first period class is extremely excited about flying. That is until this year since all the schools are closed.
Last edited by fliers1; 04-15-2020 at 04:00 AM.
04-15-2020, 04:55 AM
#34
Originally Posted by jester_s1
If the AMA is smart, they will start marketing to a fresh new group of kids that are coming up whose parents are reacting against electronics.
Astro
04-25-2020, 03:24 AM
#35
A form of Winston Churchill's quotation, made in a radio broadcast in October 1939:
- "I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest." Replace "Russia" with AMA.
04-25-2020, 05:09 AM
#36
A form of Winston Churchill's quotation, made in a radio broadcast in October 1939:
- "I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest." Replace "Russia" with AMA.
04-25-2020, 05:25 PM
#37
Senior Member
the chief architect being AMA pres Rich Hanson. Although Hanson has only been president for a couple of years,
for 9 years prior he was director of Government and Regulatory Affairs. As such, Hanson has a hand in every
important regulation or law affecting the hobby since 2008, during the so-called drone age.
In an April, 2013 article on drones and privacy, Hanson is quoted as saying,
“Even though [one piece of legislation] may not be problematic for us, future legislation might be,
if we’re considered a drone.”
How did AMA get from there to the drone friendly AMA that just blew up the entire RC flying hobby?
04-25-2020, 06:17 PM
#38
Agreed that some members actively support some of the bone-headed moves like forced membership. But I see
the chief architect being AMA pres Rich Hanson. Although Hanson has only been president for a couple of years,
for 9 years prior he was director of Government and Regulatory Affairs. As such, Hanson has a hand in every
important regulation or law affecting the hobby since 2008, during the so-called drone age.
In an April, 2013 article on drones and privacy, Hanson is quoted as saying,
“Even though [one piece of legislation] may not be problematic for us, future legislation might be,
if we’re considered a drone.”
How did AMA get from there to the drone friendly AMA that just blew up the entire RC flying hobby?
the chief architect being AMA pres Rich Hanson. Although Hanson has only been president for a couple of years,
for 9 years prior he was director of Government and Regulatory Affairs. As such, Hanson has a hand in every
important regulation or law affecting the hobby since 2008, during the so-called drone age.
In an April, 2013 article on drones and privacy, Hanson is quoted as saying,
“Even though [one piece of legislation] may not be problematic for us, future legislation might be,
if we’re considered a drone.”
How did AMA get from there to the drone friendly AMA that just blew up the entire RC flying hobby?
1) GREED
2) POWER
3) ARROGANCE
04-25-2020, 07:12 PM
#39
Senior Member
04-26-2020, 02:41 AM
#40
If you want something done right, do it yourself.
Question is, what do we expect AMA to do that needs to be done? If AMA cannot or will not do what is needed that would turn things around and ASAP, wouldn't it be up to the 110k members to do what is necessary to help their own cause? After all, it's quite apparent that AMA HQ hasn't found a way to recruit and retain new blood. How do we drastically increase our numbers? That is something that is apparently out of AMA's hands. They tried Sign 3, Fly Free and other measures, that apparently didn't work. There are members who only see what's happening in their club only; few, if any are concerned about the big picture. Add desperation to that list. It looks like those at AMA HQ are fresh out of productive ideas.
04-26-2020, 04:06 AM
#41
If you want something done right, do it yourself.
Question is, what do we expect AMA to do that needs to be done? If AMA cannot or will not do what is needed that would turn things around and ASAP, wouldn't it be up to the 110k members to do what is necessary to help their own cause? After all, it's quite apparent that AMA HQ hasn't found a way to recruit and retain new blood. How do we drastically increase our numbers? That is something that is apparently out of AMA's hands. They tried Sign 3, Fly Free and other measures, that apparently didn't work. There are members who only see what's happening in their club only; few, if any are concerned about the big picture. Add desperation to that list. It looks like those at AMA HQ are fresh out of productive ideas.
Question is, what do we expect AMA to do that needs to be done? If AMA cannot or will not do what is needed that would turn things around and ASAP, wouldn't it be up to the 110k members to do what is necessary to help their own cause? After all, it's quite apparent that AMA HQ hasn't found a way to recruit and retain new blood. How do we drastically increase our numbers? That is something that is apparently out of AMA's hands. They tried Sign 3, Fly Free and other measures, that apparently didn't work. There are members who only see what's happening in their club only; few, if any are concerned about the big picture. Add desperation to that list. It looks like those at AMA HQ are fresh out of productive ideas.
You said to add desperation to the list? Not really as that's only been the situation for the past year or two since, before that, the AMA "brass" didn't want to admit there was a problem. Now, the FAA won't work with the AMA due to the demands the AMA is throwing at the FAA and, quite simply, it's like the FAA is dealing with a child throwing a tantrum and telling the child to go to their room.
04-26-2020, 04:34 AM
#42
The problem isn't with what the AMA has tried, recruiting wise, it's the "I want it and don't want to have to pay anything to get it" mentality. When you look at the costs involved to get into the hobby, regardless what kind of flying you're looking at doing, it gets cost prohibitive very quickly. When you add up the cost of a plane(regardless of kind), fuel/batteries, radio gear and accessories, AMA and club memberships, you're talking quite a chunk for funding. Then you look at the amount of time it takes to learn to fly. When I compare it to my other hobbies, those being square and round dancing, people show up for the first class and, invariably, roughly half don't come back or leave before the first lesson is over because they don't want to commit the amount of time it takes to learn, that being 16 to 20 weeks at $5 or so per student, depending on club and instructor. They would rather go to a bar or club, take 10 minutes to learn, for example, the Electric Slide and dance it all night, regardless of the song that's playing.
You said to add desperation to the list? Not really as that's only been the situation for the past year or two since, before that, the AMA "brass" didn't want to admit there was a problem. Now, the FAA won't work with the AMA due to the demands the AMA is throwing at the FAA and, quite simply, it's like the FAA is dealing with a child throwing a tantrum and telling the child to go to their room.
You said to add desperation to the list? Not really as that's only been the situation for the past year or two since, before that, the AMA "brass" didn't want to admit there was a problem. Now, the FAA won't work with the AMA due to the demands the AMA is throwing at the FAA and, quite simply, it's like the FAA is dealing with a child throwing a tantrum and telling the child to go to their room.
Greetings Clarence
It is not the lack of willing, competent instructors, that are causing the decline in our hobby. One cannot instruct anyone, if no one is interested enough to check out the hobby, in the first place. Said another way, there is no school, if there are no students.
Much has been written about the various changes in technology, society, the movement of people from a rural or small town environment to the large urban centres, the pressures of earning a living in todays world, the demise of service clubs and churches (1,100 churches are closing their doors, in Ontario alone, in 2019), the decline in leisure time and the increase in options. that a individual can pursue in their available leisure time and the most important – the lack of interest in aviation, as a whole. On top of all that, there is the current changes in the regulatory environment and the anticipated constraints yet to come.
All organizations are trying to reach out, via Social Media marketing, to those who might be attracted to their organization. The MAAC club instructors are doing a fine job in teaching and welcoming new people to the hobby. Life is what it is, and that means change.
Peter Shaffer - MAAC President
Hi Clarence,
I do remember our conversations and did at the time pass along all information sent to me. Neither you or I can force people to accept anything they are presented with. It did not happen then and I’m not sure it would now.
How has it been going for you there in the USA? Has your program been accepted by the AMA? As far as that goes, one does not necessarily need to know how to fly, technology has taken care of that. Radio’s can be programed to have the model do flight and come back to take off point!!! Even the full-size airplanes are more technology driven than piloted by people.
I’ve been with MAAC now for forty years. I’m not sure that the hobby can be saved. The world is different today than it was in the 30’s when AMA was formed and in 49 when MAAC was formed. Todays generation are not exposed to aircraft the way that the traditional modeler, you and I (even though I don’t fly models) were. We watched movies with all the different types of airplanes flying in the skies, today it’s about the technology, the cockpit, on the outside they all look the same with different paint jobs. You can’t walk down the street by the local park and see model airplanes flying, you need to get into a car, loaded with your stuff and drive half an hour or more to the nearest flying site.
MAAC lost over 250 members at the end of 2018, another 250+ this year and we’re looking at another 250 in 2020. I did a count in July of the members 10,000 at the time and found that 75% of those members were over the age of 50. Not a good outlook for the future with 2500 people under the age of 50 coming along behind the traditional long-term member. AMA is not faring well either, their numbers are down, and they have cut staff. Apparently, the British aeromodelling association has experienced member losses as well.
Go into any hobby store or online and have a look at what they are selling. We are in a disposable world. Todays member is here for one to five years and then they are gone.
Don’t know where it’s all going in the end.
Linda Patrick
MAAC Secretary/Treasurer
905-632-9808 Local
905-632-3304 Fax
1-855-359-6222 Toll Free
[email protected]
04-26-2020, 05:13 AM
#43
After reading those two correspondences, I would have to agree.
What really drives me crazy is what I run into at work. Grown men have been hired to build aircraft and, sadly, they can't think for themselves. I've lost track of all the times I've been asked "So, what are you looking for?" or "So, what do you want me to do next?", considering I tell them to READ THE INSTRUCTION MANUAL and YOUR WORK MUST MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE SPECification manuals. It's really sad that I wouldn't trust a majority of them to help me build a plastic model airplane that requires paint and glue as most can't understand the pictures in the instructions or how the paint color locations are indicated. Do we really want people with that kind of mental abilities flying an R/C ANYTHING? You wouldn't dare talk about setting end stops, adjusting servo speeds or expo as those are concepts that are beyond the average person now days. It really worries me that society has gotten so stupid and I can only blame it on "smart phones" and technology as those coming out of school don't know how to think for themselves any more
What really drives me crazy is what I run into at work. Grown men have been hired to build aircraft and, sadly, they can't think for themselves. I've lost track of all the times I've been asked "So, what are you looking for?" or "So, what do you want me to do next?", considering I tell them to READ THE INSTRUCTION MANUAL and YOUR WORK MUST MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE SPECification manuals. It's really sad that I wouldn't trust a majority of them to help me build a plastic model airplane that requires paint and glue as most can't understand the pictures in the instructions or how the paint color locations are indicated. Do we really want people with that kind of mental abilities flying an R/C ANYTHING? You wouldn't dare talk about setting end stops, adjusting servo speeds or expo as those are concepts that are beyond the average person now days. It really worries me that society has gotten so stupid and I can only blame it on "smart phones" and technology as those coming out of school don't know how to think for themselves any more
04-26-2020, 05:44 AM
#44
To answer this tired , hashed & rehashed question ; Growth in this hobby , , , just like any other , is 100% , no , strike that , it's 101% dependent on NEW PEOPLE GETTING INVOLVED/INTERESTED !!!!!!!!
So what , exactly ARE us existing hobbyists/the AMA/the industry supposed to do to push a hobby onto folks who quite plainly (yes , pun intended) are flat out NOT INTERESTED ??????
Give away free models ? Provide free door to door livery services to the the people and their models to the field ? Maybe build and fly the models for them so they don't get their hands dirty ?
Your quoted article is a full 22 years old , don't you think if there was to be some great revival in aeromodeling it would have happened by now ? Do you honestly believe there is just one key ingredient beyond the general lack of public interest that would "bring 'em in in droves" ? Let me say this one more time as I've said many times in the past ;
THE PUBLIC FLAT OUT AIN'T INTERESTED IN OUR HOBBY !!!!!!! And NO amount of wailing or gnashing of teeth on our part is gonna change that ! The "romanticism" of aviation is gone for "joe Q public" , flying is now as routine as taking a bus , and just like the great electronics kit building hobby of the 1950s and 1960s , I do NOT believe the aeromodeling hobby is ever coming back to it's previous participation levels anymore than the electronics kit building hobby ever will . Are there still electronics kits to be bought ? Sure there are , just as there will always be folks like us who enjoy aeromodeling . But "Boom times" for either hobby's future ? As an informed investor I wouldn't be buying stock in either Horizon or Heathkit !
Now , I implore any one of my fellow RCU AMA forum readers to prove me and my post wrong , I defy you !!!!!!!!!!!
So what , exactly ARE us existing hobbyists/the AMA/the industry supposed to do to push a hobby onto folks who quite plainly (yes , pun intended) are flat out NOT INTERESTED ??????
Give away free models ? Provide free door to door livery services to the the people and their models to the field ? Maybe build and fly the models for them so they don't get their hands dirty ?
Your quoted article is a full 22 years old , don't you think if there was to be some great revival in aeromodeling it would have happened by now ? Do you honestly believe there is just one key ingredient beyond the general lack of public interest that would "bring 'em in in droves" ? Let me say this one more time as I've said many times in the past ;
THE PUBLIC FLAT OUT AIN'T INTERESTED IN OUR HOBBY !!!!!!! And NO amount of wailing or gnashing of teeth on our part is gonna change that ! The "romanticism" of aviation is gone for "joe Q public" , flying is now as routine as taking a bus , and just like the great electronics kit building hobby of the 1950s and 1960s , I do NOT believe the aeromodeling hobby is ever coming back to it's previous participation levels anymore than the electronics kit building hobby ever will . Are there still electronics kits to be bought ? Sure there are , just as there will always be folks like us who enjoy aeromodeling . But "Boom times" for either hobby's future ? As an informed investor I wouldn't be buying stock in either Horizon or Heathkit !
Now , I implore any one of my fellow RCU AMA forum readers to prove me and my post wrong , I defy you !!!!!!!!!!!
Hi gents , I posted this a year ago in a different thread as an answer to the question of what we RC hobbyists should be doing to attract new people to our hobby . I believed then just as I do now that for the most part people aren't all that fascinated with flying things anymore , and this is not the fault of the hobby's current participants . Yes , as you can tell , I took issue with the original question in that other thread's premise that we active hobbyists have somehow let the hobby down by not bringing in new hobbyists , and so I'm forced to ask the question again ; Outside of being a friendly and approachable representative of our hobby , just what ARE we supposed to be doing to push a hobby onto a public that flat out just ain't interested ?
04-26-2020, 07:12 AM
#46
Senior Member
If you want something done right, do it yourself.
Question is, what do we expect AMA to do that needs to be done? If AMA cannot or will not do what is needed that would turn things around and ASAP, wouldn't it be up to the 110k members to do what is necessary to help their own cause? After all, it's quite apparent that AMA HQ hasn't found a way to recruit and retain new blood. How do we drastically increase our numbers? That is something that is apparently out of AMA's hands. They tried Sign 3, Fly Free and other measures, that apparently didn't work. There are members who only see what's happening in their club only; few, if any are concerned about the big picture. Add desperation to that list. It looks like those at AMA HQ are fresh out of productive ideas.
Question is, what do we expect AMA to do that needs to be done? If AMA cannot or will not do what is needed that would turn things around and ASAP, wouldn't it be up to the 110k members to do what is necessary to help their own cause? After all, it's quite apparent that AMA HQ hasn't found a way to recruit and retain new blood. How do we drastically increase our numbers? That is something that is apparently out of AMA's hands. They tried Sign 3, Fly Free and other measures, that apparently didn't work. There are members who only see what's happening in their club only; few, if any are concerned about the big picture. Add desperation to that list. It looks like those at AMA HQ are fresh out of productive ideas.
RCU Forums founder Michael Kranitz has an open letter endorsing Eric Williams for AMA president in 2016:
RCU / RC Flight Deck Founder AMA President Endorsement
Kranitz lists all the reason why AMA should enbrace drones and slams candidate Lawrence Tougas for his position that
AMA's focus needed to return to traditional model aircraft. Kranitz uses a flawed Netflix/Blockbuster analogy to argue AMA
will be relegated to the dustbin of history if it doesn't go after drones, and that some other organization would move in and
grab this huge market.
We all know how that turned out. Drones are great for RC forums with millions of enthusiasts, but not so much for a model
aircraft organization based on fixed fields. Where is this other organization that was going to snap up this huge market?
"Lawrence’s view of the AMA should concern every AMA member who expects the AMA to remain relevant in local, state
and national affairs over the next decade."
AMA has stayed relevant in national affairs all right, for all the wrong reasons. Drones are considered a menace by most of
the public, and more so as law enforcement steps up their use, like the controversy of police using drones donated by DJI
with loudspeakers to issue warnings to people breaking coronavirus stay at home rules. Drone are surveilance tools for
police and the military. Using them as toys is going to be heavily regulated.
Lawrence Tougas was right. Focus on protecting the hobby and let the numbers fall where they may.
04-26-2020, 07:43 AM
#48
Moderator
There are lots of good thoughts here. I'm just going to address one.
Money.
When I worked in sales, one of the first things I was told is that a buyer's objections are never about the cost. Look at the US economy; people buy things every day that they can't afford. The AVERAGE American family owes more than they make. Being able to afford something has NOTHING to do with whether or not people buy it.
Case in point: For a while, I played an app based game called Castle Clash. It was one of those "freemium" games where you can play for free, but if you want to actually win you'll have to buy the extra items they sell. I never spent real money on it, but I knew guys who had spent $3000 (not a typo) and more trying to make the top 100. That's on an app based game that will likely disappear forever in a few more years. Of all the things that it's hard to get young Americans to do, spending money on frivolous things is not one of them.
What is a significant factor is perceived value. "Will this bring pleasure to me?" "Will others see this and envy me?" "Does this put me into the cool crowd?" "Will this help my family in some way, make my life easier, etc?"
Even among people who are into flying things, a significant number of youth don't perceive that the AMA gives them value for their money. So they fly in parks without insurance. Quite a few more don't perceive value in our hobby, although I can report that nearly every 8th grader that I have build a glider and fly it has a blast doing it. The interest is still certainly there.
IMHO, the solution is to go back to our roots. Teenagers will need their parents on board to buy an RC plane, get a club membership, and get transportation to the field for training and then flying. That's asking too much for many, because while the kid sees the value the parent may not. Look at how the AMA grew during its heyday in the 50's- free flight contests that developed into control line flying. If teenagers had access to free flight kits, and membership got them a club to fly with and qualified them for a contest circuit, the perceived value would return. A teenager with a little bit of motivation can scrape together the money for a free flight kit and the supplies to finish it, and plenty of parents would budget for it if they perceived it was educational. So maybe the AMA should focus on creating programs through community centers, Boy Scouts, school districts and the like? If the AMA could provide a turnkey program that those entities could buy and pass the cost on to the families, we'd have an organic way of developing those young enthusiasts into RC pilots who support their own hobby later on.
Money.
When I worked in sales, one of the first things I was told is that a buyer's objections are never about the cost. Look at the US economy; people buy things every day that they can't afford. The AVERAGE American family owes more than they make. Being able to afford something has NOTHING to do with whether or not people buy it.
Case in point: For a while, I played an app based game called Castle Clash. It was one of those "freemium" games where you can play for free, but if you want to actually win you'll have to buy the extra items they sell. I never spent real money on it, but I knew guys who had spent $3000 (not a typo) and more trying to make the top 100. That's on an app based game that will likely disappear forever in a few more years. Of all the things that it's hard to get young Americans to do, spending money on frivolous things is not one of them.
What is a significant factor is perceived value. "Will this bring pleasure to me?" "Will others see this and envy me?" "Does this put me into the cool crowd?" "Will this help my family in some way, make my life easier, etc?"
Even among people who are into flying things, a significant number of youth don't perceive that the AMA gives them value for their money. So they fly in parks without insurance. Quite a few more don't perceive value in our hobby, although I can report that nearly every 8th grader that I have build a glider and fly it has a blast doing it. The interest is still certainly there.
IMHO, the solution is to go back to our roots. Teenagers will need their parents on board to buy an RC plane, get a club membership, and get transportation to the field for training and then flying. That's asking too much for many, because while the kid sees the value the parent may not. Look at how the AMA grew during its heyday in the 50's- free flight contests that developed into control line flying. If teenagers had access to free flight kits, and membership got them a club to fly with and qualified them for a contest circuit, the perceived value would return. A teenager with a little bit of motivation can scrape together the money for a free flight kit and the supplies to finish it, and plenty of parents would budget for it if they perceived it was educational. So maybe the AMA should focus on creating programs through community centers, Boy Scouts, school districts and the like? If the AMA could provide a turnkey program that those entities could buy and pass the cost on to the families, we'd have an organic way of developing those young enthusiasts into RC pilots who support their own hobby later on.
04-26-2020, 08:09 AM
#49
There are lots of good thoughts here. I'm just going to address one.
Money.
When I worked in sales, one of the first things I was told is that a buyer's objections are never about the cost. Look at the US economy; people buy things every day that they can't afford. The AVERAGE American family owes more than they make. Being able to afford something has NOTHING to do with whether or not people buy it.
Case in point: For a while, I played an app based game called Castle Clash. It was one of those "freemium" games where you can play for free, but if you want to actually win you'll have to buy the extra items they sell. I never spent real money on it, but I knew guys who had spent $3000 (not a typo) and more trying to make the top 100. That's on an app based game that will likely disappear forever in a few more years. Of all the things that it's hard to get young Americans to do, spending money on frivolous things is not one of them.
What is a significant factor is perceived value. "Will this bring pleasure to me?" "Will others see this and envy me?" "Does this put me into the cool crowd?" "Will this help my family in some way, make my life easier, etc?"
Even among people who are into flying things, a significant number of youth don't perceive that the AMA gives them value for their money. So they fly in parks without insurance. Quite a few more don't perceive value in our hobby, although I can report that nearly every 8th grader that I have build a glider and fly it has a blast doing it. The interest is still certainly there.
IMHO, the solution is to go back to our roots. Teenagers will need their parents on board to buy an RC plane, get a club membership, and get transportation to the field for training and then flying. That's asking too much for many, because while the kid sees the value the parent may not. Look at how the AMA grew during its heyday in the 50's- free flight contests that developed into control line flying. If teenagers had access to free flight kits, and membership got them a club to fly with and qualified them for a contest circuit, the perceived value would return. A teenager with a little bit of motivation can scrape together the money for a free flight kit and the supplies to finish it, and plenty of parents would budget for it if they perceived it was educational. So maybe the AMA should focus on creating programs through community centers, Boy Scouts, school districts and the like? If the AMA could provide a turnkey program that those entities could buy and pass the cost on to the families, we'd have an organic way of developing those young enthusiasts into RC pilots who support their own hobby later on.
Money.
When I worked in sales, one of the first things I was told is that a buyer's objections are never about the cost. Look at the US economy; people buy things every day that they can't afford. The AVERAGE American family owes more than they make. Being able to afford something has NOTHING to do with whether or not people buy it.
Case in point: For a while, I played an app based game called Castle Clash. It was one of those "freemium" games where you can play for free, but if you want to actually win you'll have to buy the extra items they sell. I never spent real money on it, but I knew guys who had spent $3000 (not a typo) and more trying to make the top 100. That's on an app based game that will likely disappear forever in a few more years. Of all the things that it's hard to get young Americans to do, spending money on frivolous things is not one of them.
What is a significant factor is perceived value. "Will this bring pleasure to me?" "Will others see this and envy me?" "Does this put me into the cool crowd?" "Will this help my family in some way, make my life easier, etc?"
Even among people who are into flying things, a significant number of youth don't perceive that the AMA gives them value for their money. So they fly in parks without insurance. Quite a few more don't perceive value in our hobby, although I can report that nearly every 8th grader that I have build a glider and fly it has a blast doing it. The interest is still certainly there.
IMHO, the solution is to go back to our roots. Teenagers will need their parents on board to buy an RC plane, get a club membership, and get transportation to the field for training and then flying. That's asking too much for many, because while the kid sees the value the parent may not. Look at how the AMA grew during its heyday in the 50's- free flight contests that developed into control line flying. If teenagers had access to free flight kits, and membership got them a club to fly with and qualified them for a contest circuit, the perceived value would return. A teenager with a little bit of motivation can scrape together the money for a free flight kit and the supplies to finish it, and plenty of parents would budget for it if they perceived it was educational. So maybe the AMA should focus on creating programs through community centers, Boy Scouts, school districts and the like? If the AMA could provide a turnkey program that those entities could buy and pass the cost on to the families, we'd have an organic way of developing those young enthusiasts into RC pilots who support their own hobby later on.