William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Doug:

The only way I've been able to assemble the intake pipe is to put the 0-ring in the recess in the head, then work the pipe in with the aluminum ring on the pipe. Never been able to put the o-ring on the pipe first.

I bought a fist full of OS "F" plugs a few yes rs ago (got a good price) and I'm still using that stock. Horizon sent me a couple "Saito" plugs to try, they work fine. Next purchase will be the Saito plugs. It's been too long since I've run anything else so I really can't comment on them. You know the old bit, "If it aint broke..."

Bill.

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

My 1.50 Golden Knight came with the velocity stack The picture on http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=SAIE056GK of the .56 GK also shows it with a stack, so im hoping it arrives with the stack like the picture shows

I stand correctd on the other models not comming with stacks, I really have not looked at them. I did not even know about the velocity stack when I got the 150, I got the GK version just for the finish, it comming with the stack was an unexpected bonus [sm=greedy.gif]

Given what I know now about fuel comsumption, I would not fly a saito or any 4 stroke without a velocity stack.

JettPilot

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

HI Bill: I flew the CAP 232 this Am and it flew ok however I feel that the 18 X 6 prop is not fast enough for this plane. I will drop to a 17 X 6 and see what happens. I was going to email you anyway about a problem that I am having with the O-Ring that you are talking about on the carb intake to the engine. You already beat me to it. I see what you are saying about the fact that you cannot connect the O-Ring to the carb intake first. It seems ( I am going to Try again with your suggestion) that may be the only way to get it to snug up. I am also wondering, even if I get it on. is it going to seas!!!!! It seems there must be a better way for Saito to attach the carb for an easier attachment and seal.

Ron

rlmcnii

My Feedback: (3)

JP,
I believe the .56GK will have the stack. Both my .82 and .91 came with the stack. Perhaps the stacks have been eliminated as standard on the newer (1.00 &1.25) engines.

WR made me (us) aware of the further efficiency gained by use of the filter. Properly set-up, these engines seem to run very well and very efficiently.

Good luck with the .56.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Ron:

If the engine rpm is in the right range with the 18x6 prop going to a smaller diameter will increase the speed only by raising the rpm. Better than going to a 17x6 would be a 17x8, equivalent load (for the rpm) but a higher air speed.

On the other hand, if the rpm is low then the 17x6 should help.

You select the pitch for the desired air speed, then diameter to get the correct load on the engine.

I’ve never had a problem with initial sealing on the upper o-ring on the intake pipe, it’s only after running the engine that the problem appears. One failed on the very first run of the engine, usually they last 30 minutes at least, but seldom more than an hour with the early version back plate. The stiffer ones of the early pattern would last two hours. The latest version, part number SAI7217A, are holding up better.

The same method of carb and intake pipe mounting has been used on all the small and mid-block Saitos from day one, there was never a problem until the FA-72 came along with the plastic back plate, too flexible, allowing the pipe to vibrate in and out, sting the o-ring at the top end. First change was a stiffer plastic, the latest ones have stiffener blocks added under the carb mounting boss. Still not a completely satisfactory solution, but much better. In my latest parts order I’m getting one of the newest version to try. We’ll see.

Strangely, the FA-82, using the exact same back plate has not had the problem.

Bill.

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

Bill: Thanks for that info. Further research into the carb intake, I see a sleeve that is on the inside. It measures approx 1/8" deep. I am wondering if it is a piece broken off from the sleeve that come out of the head???

Ron

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Ron:

There should be no loose sleeve, or any thing loose in the intake port. Look at the head end of your intake pipe. The chrome plating should be smooth all the way around the end, the reduced diameter section about 1/4 inch long. If your pipe has a rough end, or seems shorter, it's broken and should be relplaced.

Bill.

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

Bill: I just talked with Saito and you are correct. The sleeve has broken where the lock nut tightens and that is why it won't secure. I ordered one from Horizen. $ 26.00 plus $4.50 shipping thru USPS standard mail.

Ron

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Ron:

Turns out we're talking about apples and oranges. All my late posts on intake leakage have been about the mid block engines using nothing for upper sealing except an o-ring and an aluminum support washer. See the first picture.

The engines that mount the intake pipe with a jam nut into the cylinder casting are the big block series - the FA-120, FA-150, and FA-180 only. The big block engines don't use a rubber o-ring there at all. What they have is a thin aluminum gasket, it usually stays in place and most people don't even know it's there. Second and third pictures.

Bill.

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

You are correct. I did not see the aluminum washer and I think it is because the washer came off when I removed the carb. Tks.

Ron

solafein

Just a little trick for getting those pesky rubber and teflon "O" rings on. Fill a ceramic coffee cup about 1/2 full of boiling water, drop in "O" rings. Let set a minute and you will be amazed at how far you can stretch a "solid" teflon "O" ring, not to mention a rubber one.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

The .56 is very, very fuel efficient without a stack. Since mine runs so good, I wouldn't do anything to it right now. I messed up about a month ago and tweeked the high speed needle valve after a year or so of flying it. Should have left it alone!

IronCross

Your right about the .56.. I did however put the stack and a filter on both mine.. The differance in fuel usage was amazing... Seems like it increased the flight time by at least 1/3... Well worth the effort... And it still runs steady as a clock... I think the .56 is one of the nicest running Saitos I have...

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

Thats great to hear, because that is the engine I am going to buy for my next project, the GK version definately

wingy

I am having problems with my Saito 91. The first flight seamed fine but after refueling the valve in fueler would not seal up and had a small drip. I flew the airplane anyway and the motor locked up in the air. After letting it cool I shot some after run oil in and got the motor to turn like it was before. Next flight it seamed to have less power and over heated again. The engine is cowled and I have had it apart to clean it before I installed it. I was woundering if I had the timing wrong would this make it lack power and overheat?? I am going to try the next flight without the cowl to see if that is the overheating problem but do you think I need to retime it?

Thanks any help would be great.

Thunderchild

Professor Bill Robison Esq.

Another question for the guru of Saito please.

I notice on the radial engine forum that some of those engines are running on straight methanol.

Apart from the obvious increase in displacement of these bigger engines, what factors dictate the point that nitro can be done away with?

Can any Saito's be run like that and from what displacement? And to head off the question, no I am not contemplating running my 325R5 without nitro.

Just curious now I am a "round and rattly" owner.

Thanks

TC

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

wingy:

I suspect you went lean. The drip from the fueling valve could also let air in when the engine is running. No, you say, you’re running muffler pressure. Well sir, at low throttle settings there is no muffler pressure. It only comes in with high power, when there’s a lot of air flowing through the engine. It’s a good idea to try it without the cowl, but try it without the fueling valve too.

A fully run in Saito is seldom damaged by overheating, so go ahead and try it. If it ran well on the first flight as you say, the cam wont be out of time.

I have put you in as Club Saito number 298. Welcome.
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TC:

Did you get the FA-325R5 or the later FA-325R5A? The later one has two plugs per cylinder, easy to tell them apart.

Any Saito will run well with no nitro, but the idle will suffer, and the later engines wont deliver full power without it. Even the older “High Compression” engines like about 15% nitro. At least mine seem happier with it.

With the five cylinder engine you can probably get a good idle with no nitro, certainly with 5% mix the idle would be fine. From that point it’s deciding if you want more power. But a warning. The more nitro the worse the fuel economy, you don’t want to burn a half gallon every time you start the engine. And even on 5% it’s going to use a lot.

“Round and Rattley? Nah. Your Saito radial is really pretty quiet. If you want to her a noisy one find an old Kinner engine. Fresh out of overhaul the mechanical clatter drowns out the exhaust.

Bill.

wkunkel

My Feedback: (8)

Hey guys
When you started talking about the thin aluminum washer under the intake manifold in a 150, I became suspicious and took mine apart. There is no gasket there at all. Could this maybe be my problem? Where can I get those washers or are they part of the carb gasket kit ?
Thanks
Wally

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

Have you tried running it with out the cowl on? If it runs ok with out the cowl than you have a cooling problem when it is cowled. It takes a 2/3 to 1 ratio for the engine to acquire proper cooloing in a cowl. That means for every part of air coming in thru the front that it needs 2 to 3 parts of air to escape. You also need to make sure that it is running on the rich side. Is it smoking thru the eshaust? You should be able to see a good deal of smoke coming from the exhaust. If not, you need to richen it with the Mixture control.

rlmcnii

My Feedback: (3)

skillet92,
Since no one else has responded to your post of 06/01, and as one Saito (relative) rookie to another, I'll give it a shot.

First: DO NOT COUNT TURNS. Set the HS needle with a tachometer. Beginning with it five turns out is in keeping with Saito's recommendation. You must start with it rich enough to support full-throttle running.

Second: Adjust the HS needle ONLY at FULL-THROTTLE. The consensus in this thread seems to be to lean the HS needle to peak rpm and then richen until the engine drops 300 to 500 rpm. Do not attempt to adjust mid-range running with the HS needle. You will end up with it too lean to support full-throttle operation.

If the engine pops and bangs and loosens the prop nut (or throws the prop off) as you open the throttle, the HS is already too lean.

Third: All of the rest of the mixture adjustment is done with the LS needle. The LS needles are apparently, and usually, set wildly rich when the engine is new. Once, and ONLY AFTER, the HS needle is set you may adjust the LS needle. I adjust mine until the engine will quit when transitioning out of idle and then richen until it will transition. Many people in this thread recommend the pinch-test in one of its many apparent permutations. I have never done this test, but it must work well. One poster has recommended leaning the LS until the engine just hesitates when transitioning out of idle, and then richen until the transition is smooth.

You will probably need to lean the LS needle more than you think necessary. My largest Saito is a .91, so I am unable to speak with any direct knowledge of your engine. The LS needle controls how well you will like your Saito. They will run very well with that needle set way too rich. When running in that configuration they will burn fuel at a tremendous rate and make a lot of smoke. You need not worry about setting the LS too lean...the engine will not smoothly come out of idle.

One other little thing, of which you are probably already aware: As you lean the LS needle the idle will speed up. Adjust the idle SPEED with the servo end-point adjustment in the transmitter (or, lacking a computer-radio, with the throttle linkage) and adjust the idle MIXTURE with the LS needle.

You will need to fine tune the needles as the engine gets some use. In my limited Saito experience, I have found that if you will take a little time to set them up properly they will run very efficiently and reliably. They seem to require, especially for a new operator, a bit more attention than a two-stroke to set up. The attention, however, is well worth it. Enjoy your new engine.

Parkerm

My Feedback: (6)

I run 100% synthetic in all my engines and four of them are Saitos. Castor is obsolete, nasty, and gummy I was very glad to be rid of the stuff, over two years ago.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Wally:

The aluminum sealing washer for the big block intake usually sticks in place, this is why many people don’t know it’s there. If you go into your intake port with a fine wire hook you can probably pull it out. New ones come in the engine gasket kit. Again, most people don’t know what it’s for when they see it.
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Skillet:

Apologies for missing your post, rlmcnii has given you a good answer.
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Rimcnii:

Thanks for the good job of covering my butt.
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Parker:

You are welcome to run your engines without castor oil. Yes, it’s an old lubricant, however it’s anything but obsolete.

Bill.

loughbd

If you look in the crankcase you will see a small hole drilled through to the cam housing. That's how the oil gets past a sealed bearing.

Straight synthetic oil guarantees me business. I replace rusty bearings and straight synthetic oil guarantees rusty bearings.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Bruce:

All the Saito cranks have the counter bore from the web end into the large diameter section of the shaft itself, this is for weight reduction, but they do not have the smaller drilling to let the oil pass through to the cam. You're thinking about the OS engines, they do have the smaller hole.

Bill.

loughbd

Bill,

You may be the self proclaimed expert on Saito engines but there are a few of us around that have been using and repairing them since they first came out and have a pretty good working knowledge of them. I'm holding an FA45 in my hot little had right now with it's backplate off. At the eleven o'clock position just outside the bearing outer race is a small hole that is drilled through into the cam housing. The engine came that way from the factory. I have three of them and they are all made the same way. I also have a 65 case with the same hole and an FA80T with the same hole. The hole is in the crankcase not the crankshaft. I do know the difference between the two.

I can tell an OS engine from a Saito. There is quite a difference. Now if you want me to completely disassemble the engine and take a picture I will.