wkunkel

My Feedback: (8)

Can someone tell me where to get the little spacer wachers with the tab on it that goes along side of the rocker arm ? I don't see it in any of the parts kits that Horizon has. Also, I didn't see that aluminum intake washer in the engine gasket kit. It looks like it might be in the carb gasket kit.
Wally

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Wally:

Saito is no longer using the thrust washers on the rocker arms. You can, if you wish, use the thrust washers for the cam shaft. These come in two different inside diameters. Hold your rocker pivot screw against the visible end of the cam axle. If it's the same size you'll want to order part number SAI20S37, or if the pivot screw is smaller then order SAI5037. Do note these do not have the ears to keep them from turning.

Don't know what to say about the intake ring, it has been in all the big block gasket sets I've gotten. If yours is missing it's not the first time a bit has been left out. Call Dennis Davenport at Horizon, he'll take care of you.

Bill.

badz

My Feedback: (1)

I built a Sig 300XS over the winter and tossed a Saito 1.50 in it...the engine's being damn stubborn...she'll fire fine and drop out to a great idle but just doesn't want to give me snap....then after I seem to get a happy medium she'll drop off on idle and power....I've changed the glowplug twice now..I'm running cool power 15% fuel...works fine for my other 4 strokers...this is only one giving me a issue...any idea's? Oh it's turning a 16x8 as per manual for breakin...When she runs ok I catch around 9.500-10,000 RPM max throttle and idles down to 2200-2600RPM..I'd idealy like to fly it with a 16x10

wkunkel

My Feedback: (8)

Bill
Thanks for the info. Did Saito make the new rocker fit better ? Or is it ok to run it without the washer ? For now I borrowed both parts from a 1.80 that I have for a future project. I really appreciate all the help. I'll try not to ask too many redundant questions. I have read back through the thread because I know it must be aggravating dealing with us newcomers. But I'm sure there are things I've missed.
Wally

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Badz:

My impression is that you are messing up setting the needles.

Go to the low speed, turn it back out until it’s just below flush with the flat face of the throttle lever. Now at full throttle peak the high speed, richen it to get 400-500 rpm drop, and leave it alone.

Next set he throttle to get as low n idle as you can, and start leaning the low speed needle. Lean it a bit and try the throttle to go lower, keep playing back and forth until you have it as smooth as it will run, should be around 2200 rpm.

Now you’re in the ball park on both.

Go back to full throttle and recheck – pesk it and hen richen for 200-300 rpm drop. Go to idle and check the transition, adjusting as necessary. This time, since you know both are close, recheck the high speed at least every other time you adjust the low.

If the engine doesn’t respond properly to this method you have an air leak, wrong tank height, bad fuel, or similar problem. A clog in a carb fuel port will have the high speed adjustment ineffective at best, or the engine wont run at full throttle. If it will idle without glow heat you can almost eliminate the glow plug as a fault.

You might well check the valve adjustment, but if too loose it almost cannot affect the idle, too tight will make the engine ratty at any speed, if it will run at all.

Wally:

The rockers don’t fit any better, Saito is still using the same forging dies and molds for the castings. It’s just that the side loads on the rockers are so slight that wear isn’t a real problem. But to me side float is a problem. Due to the angularities in the valve train the valve spring load pushes the rocker to the inside, then when the valve closes the clearance lets the rocker slide back to the outside. This changes the valve clearance – loose when the rocker is to the inside, tight when it slides out.

If you run the valves at the high end lash, 0.004” range, it wont make a lot of difference. But if you want all the engine wants to give, and run 0.0015” lash, the side float can make a difference. For this reason I try to eliminate as much of the float as I can. Whether it’s the early Teflon thrust washers, the later tabbed steel ones, or just thrust washers from the cam axle, I think they are worth while.

Bill.

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

I agree with Bill on all issues. He is very knowledgble conserning all issues. I would add one suggestion. Is there enough air exhaust outlet. Sounds like it could be heating up real fast and slowing to idle. At idle speed,it does not require the escape of air that it does on full throttle. A minimum of 1 part intake airflow and 2 parts airexhaust. Having said that, the plane should have come with the cowl alredy designed for the proper flow of air.

Ron

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

badz:

Agreement with Ron (Thanks, Ron) I forgot heat, but the way I read youor post the problem is immediate, with no wait for heat to rear its head.

Bill.

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

I agree. It is an immediate problem.

Bill: I flew my Sig Extra 300XS 1/4 scale for the first time this morning. I have made a lot of mods to the plane. I put a Moki 210 in place of the Saito 150. Cline regulater, and self made glow igniter. Engine is inverted with a modofied 19 X 8 Zinger. Takes a good amount of prime to get it to fire. Also bench ran thru 4 gallons of 5% and added 4oz of caster oil to each gallon. The plane flew perfect however I must have not tightened the prop nut and it came loose in flight. Overheated and quit on downwind after the first go round. "Some preflight inspection Huh ". Did not make it to the field and on somewhat of a flat surface hit a rock on rollout and tore the gear loose. Clean break so easy repair. Plane is pleanty fast but need to go to a 20 X 8 for 3D. This plane is supposed to wing load at 13 lbs max. Plane load now is 16lbs. I talked to a sig emplyee that stated his weighd 17lbs with the same setup and was doing 3D with out any problem. That Moki 210 is is an awesome engine. Have you had any experience with the Moki engines?

Ron

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Ron:

Nope. Never touched a Moki. Don't even know of any in my club that have one. If it counts, we do have some two stroke YS engines.

I've never heard anything bad about them except that parts are some tines hard to get, otherwise great. I do hear they don't like nitro, so even though they are big and are guzzlers, they guzzle the cheap stuff. Dago Red, so to speak.

They also don't like high rpm, so the 20x8 will probably be better thsn the 18x8.

Remember every statement I've made about the Mokis is totally based on hearsay.

Bill.

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

Thats ok. I received great info on the Moki RCU site from the experts. It is really great that U guys are here to help us begginers. I try to contribute as much as I can and am very carefull about what I know to publish. There are so many people that have opinions you really have to watch out for that. This Hobby/sport is not an exact science and as U know what works for one cituation may not work for another. It pays to really do a lot of research plus "trial and error" and if you don't have the patience you should not be in it. Having said that I find that most of the people on RCU are great at giving good advice. I especially like your's because you have the technicall background but also the way to explain things so that we lay people can understand what you are saying. Not trying to build you up but like Will Sonett once said when ask by a little old lady "are you really the fastest draw in the west"? His reply was " yes Mam, thats not brag just fact". Have a great day whats left of it.

Ron

gjeffers

well i tried out a new prop on my monster/saito 180 today and to my surprise a 17x8APC two blade did 650 more rpm than the MAS 16x8 three blade.

APC 17x8 two turned 8750

MAS 16x8 three turned 8100

this was on omega 15%(thanks Bill, this is great fuel)

just a little info for whoever has a 180

solafein

You went from 17lbs of thrust to 19 on a 12 pound bird.

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

That is normal. 3 blades reguire more rpms even if a smaller prop. Seems that extra blade can pull down the RPMs against the 2 blade larger Diam. What plane are you flying the 180 in. I am flying a CAP 232 1/4 scale, 180 Saito with a 16 X 8 classic. Flys well however may be able to increase my vertical if I put in a larger prop. Thanks for the info, I will try the same prop as you.

Ron.

gjeffers

Im flying a Monster Pitts Ron, the three performs pretty good on this plane, it just impressed me of the difference between the two props, not more speed but the spool up was quite a bit faster and the rpm increase was substansal. here is some pics of my monster....

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

Gary: Awesome plane. Thanks.

Ron

dvr

Please Help!! I have posted this on other forums with really no new "tricks" than what I have already tried.

Saito 180 vibrates muffler pipe loose from cylinder and the muffler loose from the pipe on every flight. Its mounted on a D P Edge 540T I have ran 1 gallon of fuel for break in and then switched to 30% for flying. Engine starts great and runs good. I only have seven flights on this plane and in seven flights it shook the muffler off. For attempted flight number eight I mounted a Saito straight pipe on the thing and within 30 seconds it was vibrated in half. I have talked with other local 180 owners that have exp the same problem. I discussed the engine problem with the local hobby shop owner and he feels that it should not be producing this type of vibration. Talked with Saito and they said adjust valves and if that does not do it then the bearings might be rusted. I have owned this engine for 6 mounts. I have also had items shake loose on this plane that I have never had come loose on planes in 20 years of flying. I have run different size props, adjusted valves, balanced props and spinner, used teflon tape,used locite high temp and low temp, done about every thing but weld the thing to the engine. I pulled the engine off the plane and have sent it back to Saito for their review. Has anyone had this type of problem with a Saito 180? If so what did you or Saito do to fix it. Honestly, I'm frustrated with this engine and I'm looking at Gas engines. I hope that Horizon /Saito finds a solution to this problem and makes things right. [:@]

mstcitabria

Here's a pic of my Aviation Yak Pro with a Saito 100 and my step-son home on leave from Iraq for two weeks.....................mstcitabria

PE2fan

My Feedback: (8)

Hey guys,

A buddy of mine just dropped a Saito 1.5 in his Showtime 4D 90 size. The prop he had on it was a 14x10. I think he needs a diff prop what is best for that engine/plane combo?

Micheal

PS Mr Robison, am I on the roster?

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

This probably sounds silly and it seems as though you know what to look for. Having said that have you checked your engine mounts for hair-line cracks. Is it possible that your blind nuts have come loose. Are all the mounting screws tight and make sure the are not stripped. Just a far out thought because I did not know where to tell you to go to find the answer. I have had the Saito 180,150, 120 and the 91 and have never had that problem other than not tightening the nuts properly and a cracked engine mount. Sorry I can't do better.

Ron

T28RON

My Feedback: (32)

What is the problem so that we can help? The starting point for that engine is a 16 X 8.

Ron

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

PE2fan:

Quote:

Am I on the roster?

You are now, number 299.

dvr:

You get the number 300.

Welcome to both of you.

I don’t know anything more to say about your exhaust problem except that possibly the 30% nitro is just too much for your application. When the engine comes back try some 15%.

Also read Ron’s comments, he has some good advice there.

And as he also pointed out, if you’re overpropped it will aggravate the vibration.

Bill.

Ernie Misner

Citabria, you need to turn the plane so that the nipple on the crankcase points upward. That way when you turn the engine over, it will suck the after run oil in easily but will not spit it back out.

Ernie

mstcitabria

Ernie,
Thanks, I'll try that next time I fly. Going out to the strip for the evening in about 20 minutes..... don't ya just love this hobby.............mstcitabria

loughbd

Bill you said that when I got off moderated status I could be a member?? What happened?

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Bruce:

Nobody told me you were off mod status. Sorry.

You are now member number 301 in Club Saito.

Bill.