Welcome to Club SAITO !
06-28-2006, 01:42 PM
#3676
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Mokken
I have a Saito 1.82 Twin, what prop would be ideal for this motor running on 30% fuel?
Thanks,
I have a Saito 1.82 Twin, what prop would be ideal for this motor running on 30% fuel?
Thanks,
--------------
A 10x6 ought to do it. But briefly - very briefly. Be sure to hand start too. <G>
*****************
This is intended in jest. Not seriously. Also, it is not intended to offend anyone posting here. We're all friends and just tease a little now and then.
06-28-2006, 01:47 PM
#3677
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Artisan
--------------
A 10x6 ought to do it. But briefly - very briefly. Be sure to hand start too. <G>
ORIGINAL: Mokken
I have a Saito 1.82 Twin, what prop would be ideal for this motor running on 30% fuel?
Thanks,
I have a Saito 1.82 Twin, what prop would be ideal for this motor running on 30% fuel?
Thanks,
--------------
A 10x6 ought to do it. But briefly - very briefly. Be sure to hand start too. <G>
Now could someone step up and help a guy out?
06-28-2006, 01:51 PM
#3678
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Mokken
Very funny!! Now could someone step up and help a guy out?
ORIGINAL: Artisan
--------------
A 10x6 ought to do it. But briefly - very briefly. Be sure to hand start too. <G>
ORIGINAL: Mokken
I have a Saito 1.82 Twin, what prop would be ideal for this motor running on 30% fuel?
Thanks,
I have a Saito 1.82 Twin, what prop would be ideal for this motor running on 30% fuel?
Thanks,
--------------
A 10x6 ought to do it. But briefly - very briefly. Be sure to hand start too. <G>
Now could someone step up and help a guy out?
---------------
I would imagine that a prop turned by the Saito 1.80 single would be in the correct range. A 20x8 or 22x8 should not be out of the question. I'm sure Bill Robison (sp?) will know the answer, as will a few others.
06-28-2006, 01:53 PM
#3679
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Artisan
---------------
I would imagine that a prop turned by the Saito 1.80 single would be in the correct range. A 20x8 or 22x8 should not be out of the question. I'm sure Bill Robison (sp?) will know the answer, as will a few others.
ORIGINAL: Mokken
Very funny!! Now could someone step up and help a guy out?
ORIGINAL: Artisan
--------------
A 10x6 ought to do it. But briefly - very briefly. Be sure to hand start too. <G>
ORIGINAL: Mokken
I have a Saito 1.82 Twin, what prop would be ideal for this motor running on 30% fuel?
Thanks,
I have a Saito 1.82 Twin, what prop would be ideal for this motor running on 30% fuel?
Thanks,
--------------
A 10x6 ought to do it. But briefly - very briefly. Be sure to hand start too. <G>
Now could someone step up and help a guy out?
---------------
I would imagine that a prop turned by the Saito 1.80 single would be in the correct range. A 20x8 or 22x8 should not be out of the question. I'm sure Bill Robison (sp?) will know the answer, as will a few others.
06-28-2006, 02:22 PM
#3681
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Mokken:
It's not possible to tell you the "Right" prop for the engine without more information. The nominal prop for the FA-182T is a 16x8, and this could also be the right prop for the plane you're planning on.
The 16x8 at 8500 rpm will give you about 45 mph in level flight. If this speed is fine for the planned airplane it will probably do very well. If you want to go faster raise the pitch and decrease the diameter.
Or if you are a fixed wing pilot who is jealous of the helicopter fliers, a 17x6 or even an 18x5 could be right.
Out of curiosity, why do you want to spend the money for 30% nitro? I've never seen the need for anything more that 15%, and the Saitos seem to still do very well at 5%.
Bill
.
[/b]
It's not possible to tell you the "Right" prop for the engine without more information. The nominal prop for the FA-182T is a 16x8, and this could also be the right prop for the plane you're planning on.
The 16x8 at 8500 rpm will give you about 45 mph in level flight. If this speed is fine for the planned airplane it will probably do very well. If you want to go faster raise the pitch and decrease the diameter.
Or if you are a fixed wing pilot who is jealous of the helicopter fliers, a 17x6 or even an 18x5 could be right.
Out of curiosity, why do you want to spend the money for 30% nitro? I've never seen the need for anything more that 15%, and the Saitos seem to still do very well at 5%.
Bill
.
[/b]
06-28-2006, 02:29 PM
#3682
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: William Robison
Mokken:
It's not possible to tell you the "Right" prop for the engine without more information. The nominal prop for the FA-182T is a 16x8, and this could also be the right prop for the plane you're planning on.
The 16x8 at 8500 rpm will give you about 45 mph in level flight. If this speed is fine for the planned airplane it will probably do very well. If you want to go faster raise the pitch and decrease the diameter.
Or if you are a fixed wing pilot who is jealous of the helicopter fliers, a 17x6 or even an 18x5 could be right.
Out of curiosity, why do you want to spend the money for 30% nitro? I've never seen the need for anything more that 15%, and the Saitos seem to still do very well at 5%.
Bill
.
[/b]
Mokken:
It's not possible to tell you the "Right" prop for the engine without more information. The nominal prop for the FA-182T is a 16x8, and this could also be the right prop for the plane you're planning on.
The 16x8 at 8500 rpm will give you about 45 mph in level flight. If this speed is fine for the planned airplane it will probably do very well. If you want to go faster raise the pitch and decrease the diameter.
Or if you are a fixed wing pilot who is jealous of the helicopter fliers, a 17x6 or even an 18x5 could be right.
Out of curiosity, why do you want to spend the money for 30% nitro? I've never seen the need for anything more that 15%, and the Saitos seem to still do very well at 5%.
Bill
.
[/b]
06-28-2006, 03:12 PM
#3684
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Randy:
The current manual shows only the FA-325R5D, and that's what you get from Horizon. What I have in a .pdf file also shows the R5D engine. There's no reason it wont do well for you, just ignore the notes about the second plug.
You can order one from Horizon, or send me your email address (by PM or email only, don't post it here) and I'll send you a copy. I’ll send a current copy of "Saito Notes" also if you wish.
Bill.
The current manual shows only the FA-325R5D, and that's what you get from Horizon. What I have in a .pdf file also shows the R5D engine. There's no reason it wont do well for you, just ignore the notes about the second plug.
You can order one from Horizon, or send me your email address (by PM or email only, don't post it here) and I'll send you a copy. I’ll send a current copy of "Saito Notes" also if you wish.
Bill.
06-28-2006, 03:24 PM
#3685
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Mokken
A 20x8 or 22x8? You can't be serious, my DA50 turns a 22x8...haha.. I know the range, more wanting to know what prop most are running on the Twin...
ORIGINAL: Artisan
---------------
I would imagine that a prop turned by the Saito 1.80 single would be in the correct range. A 20x8 or 22x8 should not be out of the question. I'm sure Bill Robison (sp?) will know the answer, as will a few others.
ORIGINAL: Mokken
Very funny!! Now could someone step up and help a guy out?
ORIGINAL: Artisan
--------------
A 10x6 ought to do it. But briefly - very briefly. Be sure to hand start too. <G>
ORIGINAL: Mokken
I have a Saito 1.82 Twin, what prop would be ideal for this motor running on 30% fuel?
Thanks,
I have a Saito 1.82 Twin, what prop would be ideal for this motor running on 30% fuel?
Thanks,
--------------
A 10x6 ought to do it. But briefly - very briefly. Be sure to hand start too. <G>
Now could someone step up and help a guy out?
---------------
I would imagine that a prop turned by the Saito 1.80 single would be in the correct range. A 20x8 or 22x8 should not be out of the question. I'm sure Bill Robison (sp?) will know the answer, as will a few others.
---------------
You are correct. Major brain fart on my part. Back to sleep for me.
06-28-2006, 11:16 PM
#3686
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
New members:
318 huck328
319 Mokken
320 bluestratos
Welcome.
Well folks, i just did it. Read through this entire thread again - took me a couple days in between all the other activities here at "The Airplane Company."
Looks like i need a little more posting on air filter elements melting, the FA-72 back plate. and engine mounting rail hitting the Bru-Line air filter.
I'll get it done and post. Anything else?
Bill.
318 huck328
319 Mokken
320 bluestratos
Welcome.
Well folks, i just did it. Read through this entire thread again - took me a couple days in between all the other activities here at "The Airplane Company."
Looks like i need a little more posting on air filter elements melting, the FA-72 back plate. and engine mounting rail hitting the Bru-Line air filter.
I'll get it done and post. Anything else?
Bill.
06-28-2006, 11:18 PM
#3687
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner
Piper, has the engine been sitting a long time? If the oil has become congealed and frozen, try heating the engine up with a heat gun.
Ernie
Piper, has the engine been sitting a long time? If the oil has become congealed and frozen, try heating the engine up with a heat gun.
Ernie
I looked at it a little more closely this evening, and it actually appears that the rocker will move, but it's the pushrod itself that's stuck in place.
06-28-2006, 11:30 PM
#3688
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Piper:
I’ve had two engines sent for service that had the tappets stuck in their bores. On one the owner just said it had no compression, the other told me he was in flight when the engine lost power and quit. Strange.
The first one needed nothing but a thorough cleaning and it was fine, the other had damaged the rubbing end of the tappet, I replaced them. In both cases the cam shaft lobes were still fine for use, no excessive wear or signs of hammering.
Bill.
I’ve had two engines sent for service that had the tappets stuck in their bores. On one the owner just said it had no compression, the other told me he was in flight when the engine lost power and quit. Strange.
The first one needed nothing but a thorough cleaning and it was fine, the other had damaged the rubbing end of the tappet, I replaced them. In both cases the cam shaft lobes were still fine for use, no excessive wear or signs of hammering.
Bill.
06-29-2006, 12:54 PM
#3689
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I have just purchased a Sato 150 for my Sig Rascal 110, I am having problems with the engine at idel, it dies and at high speed, it seems to run really rich. Any suggestions will really help.
06-29-2006, 01:07 PM
#3690
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Just received my Intake Velocity Stake for the FA-100, and a pair of Bru-line 202 filters. Not that I have a problem with the motor at all, just wanted to try it out to see if I get better fuel economy. It will be sitting on a H9 Thunderbolt 60.
06-29-2006, 03:42 PM
#3692
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: vdraper
I have just purchased a Sato 150 for my Sig Rascal 110, I am having problems with the engine at idel, it dies and at high speed, it seems to run really rich. Any suggestions will really help.
I have just purchased a Sato 150 for my Sig Rascal 110, I am having problems with the engine at idel, it dies and at high speed, it seems to run really rich. Any suggestions will really help.
06-29-2006, 09:53 PM
#3694
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Bill R..
I ran my first full tank thru my inverted Saito 180. I'm using a MA 16x8 three blade prop for the scale effect on my GP P6-E. The fuel was 15% nitro castor oil/synthetic blend
1.) Max RPM about 7400 with power to plug
2.) Started out with NV out 5 1/2 turns.
3.) Is this about all I can expect in the way of RPM, I leaned it out to about 3 turns without much change in RPM, and there was
still unburned fuel still coming out the 24 Keleo exhaust tubes.
4.) The fuel setup is as follows. Fuel fill valve to tank and to carb. Back plate vent to tank with a "t" feeding the tank from a fitting on
24 exhaust stacks.
Any sage words of advice as to what I can expect in the way of RPM, and about where should the NV be set ?
I ran my first full tank thru my inverted Saito 180. I'm using a MA 16x8 three blade prop for the scale effect on my GP P6-E. The fuel was 15% nitro castor oil/synthetic blend
1.) Max RPM about 7400 with power to plug
2.) Started out with NV out 5 1/2 turns.
3.) Is this about all I can expect in the way of RPM, I leaned it out to about 3 turns without much change in RPM, and there was
still unburned fuel still coming out the 24 Keleo exhaust tubes.
4.) The fuel setup is as follows. Fuel fill valve to tank and to carb. Back plate vent to tank with a "t" feeding the tank from a fitting on
24 exhaust stacks.
Any sage words of advice as to what I can expect in the way of RPM, and about where should the NV be set ?
06-29-2006, 11:12 PM
#3695
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: BQuartucy
Bill R..
I ran my first full tank thru my inverted Saito 180. I'm using a MA 16x8 three blade prop for the scale effect on my GP P6-E. The fuel was 15% nitro castor oil/synthetic blend
1.) Max RPM about 7400 with power to plug
2.) Started out with NV out 5 1/2 turns.
3.) Is this about all I can expect in the way of RPM, I leaned it out to about 3 turns without much change in RPM, and there was
still unburned fuel still coming out the 24 Keleo exhaust tubes.
4.) The fuel setup is as follows. Fuel fill valve to tank and to carb. Back plate vent to tank with a "t" feeding the tank from a fitting on
24 exhaust stacks.
Any sage words of advice as to what I can expect in the way of RPM, and about where should the NV be set ?
Bill R..
I ran my first full tank thru my inverted Saito 180. I'm using a MA 16x8 three blade prop for the scale effect on my GP P6-E. The fuel was 15% nitro castor oil/synthetic blend
1.) Max RPM about 7400 with power to plug
2.) Started out with NV out 5 1/2 turns.
3.) Is this about all I can expect in the way of RPM, I leaned it out to about 3 turns without much change in RPM, and there was
still unburned fuel still coming out the 24 Keleo exhaust tubes.
4.) The fuel setup is as follows. Fuel fill valve to tank and to carb. Back plate vent to tank with a "t" feeding the tank from a fitting on
24 exhaust stacks.
Any sage words of advice as to what I can expect in the way of RPM, and about where should the NV be set ?
My two cents, I would not have the crankcase vent plumbed to the fuel tank - if I read your point four correctly. Just dump it overboard and plug the exhaust pressure nipple direct to the tank. Engine may take a while to settle, but your low speed needle may also need leaning out a bit. Take it easy and let her use a few tanks in rich mode to bed everything down before you really start screwing down the mixture(s) too much.
Cheers and enjoy
TC
06-29-2006, 11:25 PM
#3696
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
[Vdraper:
Agreement with TC, you’re still running rich. Peak the high speed needle, then back it off (rich) to get a 300-400 rpm drop. Then start leaning the low speed. Procedures many times in this thread. If you PM or email me your email address I’ll send you “Saito Notes,” covering carb adjustment and many other subjects.
You’re in Club Saito as member number 321. Gla to have you.
BQ:
The FA-180 is supposed to turn a 16x8 TWO bladed prop, with the 16x8 three blade you’re overloading the engine. One indication you can look for in the future is being unable to find a peak on the HS needle. When you are reaching the maximum load on the engine you’ll also have fun trying to get the exact peak. See if you can find a 16x6. Might also work to cut your 16x8 to 15” diameter.
Bill.
Agreement with TC, you’re still running rich. Peak the high speed needle, then back it off (rich) to get a 300-400 rpm drop. Then start leaning the low speed. Procedures many times in this thread. If you PM or email me your email address I’ll send you “Saito Notes,” covering carb adjustment and many other subjects.
You’re in Club Saito as member number 321. Gla to have you.
BQ:
The FA-180 is supposed to turn a 16x8 TWO bladed prop, with the 16x8 three blade you’re overloading the engine. One indication you can look for in the future is being unable to find a peak on the HS needle. When you are reaching the maximum load on the engine you’ll also have fun trying to get the exact peak. See if you can find a 16x6. Might also work to cut your 16x8 to 15” diameter.
Bill.
07-01-2006, 12:12 AM
#3697
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
All:
Or at least all owners of older FA-72 engines, and maybe some FA-82 owners as well.
The original FA-72 was the first Saito with a plastic back plate, it was a mixed success. It was good in that it forced the breather nipple’s move to the front of the case, much more positive oiling of the cam and tappets. But it did such a lousy job of holding the carb and intake in place that I think everyone became highly skilled in replacing the upper intake o-ring.
First “Improvement" was a stiffer plastic material, didn’t work. Still changing o-rings at least every hour of running. Unless you wrapped a wire around the cylinder and intake pipe to keep it from rattling. Many have refused this, saying it looked bad. I felt the choice was looking bad and running well, or looking fine and changing the seals. I wired mine.
The cure is here. Actually, it’s been here for a while, I wanted to be satisfied that it worked before I recommended using it.
Pictures show first, the old pattern, and second, the new style installed on my FA-72GK.
Saito has increased the size of the flange, and added supports on both sides of the top left screw. The carb now feels to be mounted as stiffly as they are on the metal back plates, and so far I’ve had no trouble.
If you have the earlier style I strongly suggest you get the later one, install it now or whenever your engine acts up. I’d say it’s a good idea for an FA-82 also if it has the earlier style. The later pattern is the only one being supplied now, no part number worries. The same one fits both engines.
Bill.
Or at least all owners of older FA-72 engines, and maybe some FA-82 owners as well.
The original FA-72 was the first Saito with a plastic back plate, it was a mixed success. It was good in that it forced the breather nipple’s move to the front of the case, much more positive oiling of the cam and tappets. But it did such a lousy job of holding the carb and intake in place that I think everyone became highly skilled in replacing the upper intake o-ring.
First “Improvement" was a stiffer plastic material, didn’t work. Still changing o-rings at least every hour of running. Unless you wrapped a wire around the cylinder and intake pipe to keep it from rattling. Many have refused this, saying it looked bad. I felt the choice was looking bad and running well, or looking fine and changing the seals. I wired mine.
The cure is here. Actually, it’s been here for a while, I wanted to be satisfied that it worked before I recommended using it.
Pictures show first, the old pattern, and second, the new style installed on my FA-72GK.
Saito has increased the size of the flange, and added supports on both sides of the top left screw. The carb now feels to be mounted as stiffly as they are on the metal back plates, and so far I’ve had no trouble.
If you have the earlier style I strongly suggest you get the later one, install it now or whenever your engine acts up. I’d say it’s a good idea for an FA-82 also if it has the earlier style. The later pattern is the only one being supplied now, no part number worries. The same one fits both engines.
Bill.
07-01-2006, 12:47 AM
#3698
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Next item is clearance between the mounting rail and the air intake stack, and the consequent worries about the Bru-Line air filter mounting.
There is no problem on the engines with centered carbs, and the 120.150/180 can have the carb and intake pipe swung a little toward center, no problem there either.
The engines with the offset carb, such as the FA-72, do have a problem. There’s only about 1/8” clearance between the bell of the stack and the rail. See first two pictures. In the second the green arrow is on the edge of the rail, the rest is the reinforcement flange, well out of the way. First picture shows it a little better.
So. Is there room for the Bru-Line air filter? Just barely. When mounted it’s really distorted as seen in the second two pictures. The good news is that it does fit, and it will work.
Bill.
There is no problem on the engines with centered carbs, and the 120.150/180 can have the carb and intake pipe swung a little toward center, no problem there either.
The engines with the offset carb, such as the FA-72, do have a problem. There’s only about 1/8” clearance between the bell of the stack and the rail. See first two pictures. In the second the green arrow is on the edge of the rail, the rest is the reinforcement flange, well out of the way. First picture shows it a little better.
So. Is there room for the Bru-Line air filter? Just barely. When mounted it’s really distorted as seen in the second two pictures. The good news is that it does fit, and it will work.
Bill.
07-01-2006, 12:56 AM
#3700
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
TW:
Yes, Dave, that's the FA-72GK I got from you. Cost about $140 in parts to put it back in running condition. Still a good deal. Thanks.
Bill.
Yes, Dave, that's the FA-72GK I got from you. Cost about $140 in parts to put it back in running condition. Still a good deal. Thanks.
Bill.