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Old 07-08-2006, 06:36 PM
  #3776  
RVM
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The Type A mounts don't require a nose ring.
Old 07-10-2006, 02:16 AM
  #3777  
Ernie Misner
 
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For the guys who have had problems from a fuel filter between the tank and the carb..... what problems did arise? Maybe I've just been lucky but have felt secure having a filter close to the carb.

Thanks,

Ernie
Old 07-10-2006, 07:29 AM
  #3778  
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[] Hi, I have just recieved a beautifull SAITO 125 GK but I noticed that the throttle barrel is very loose.
I removed the throttle barrel and found that it has NO throttle barrel spring???
I looked at other SAITO 125's at out local hobby store and they were all the same.
Is this normal or do we have a bad batch?
Old 07-10-2006, 07:47 AM
  #3779  
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I have two carbs for my 2.20 and neither has a barrel spring nor is one needed. It serves no useful purpose.
Old 07-10-2006, 10:22 AM
  #3780  
William Robison
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TW and plopes:

The barrel spring serves a real purpose.

From Saito Notes:

Carb barrel spring

Why does my FA-125 have no barrel spring in the carb?

It's not a stupid question. But it is a testimony to the excellent machine work in the Saito carb.

When you work the throttle lever you'll notice the throttle barrel also moves in and out of the carb body. This is what makes the metering (low speed) needle vary the mixture as the throttle setting changes. By moving nearer and farther off the LS needle the fuel port gets larger and smaller, changing the amount of fuel delivered.

Now, since we are depending on the consistency of the variation we have to be sure it changes only with turning the barrel, and not by the barrel moving straight in or out. The spring prevents this, keeping the barrel pushed toward the lever end.

Now we get to the excellent machine work. There is a screw, often the idle speed stop, that rides in a spiral groove on the throttle barrel. As the barrel turns, this is what makes it go in and out. With the outside of the barrel and its bore in the carb body smoothly finished, there is not much friction preventing the barrel's turning. Add the well finished side of the groove for the idle stop screw, the spring is easily able to push the barrel out of the carb body, thereby seeming to be spring loaded to full throttle.

All twin needle carbs except the cheapest possible ones, have this spring. But most others are rough enough in their production that you don't see the barrels being pushed out by the anti-rattle spring.

Please note that an ordinary air bleed carb does not need this spring. Saito air bleed carbs do have one, but they aren't ordinary air bleed carbs either. They could be the subject of another discussion if anyone is interested.

Carb barrel spring revisited.

Since writing the last note I’ve given the spring and the excellent machine work more thought.

No matter how well machined the throttle stop screw and the groove in the barrel are, they are subject to wear. When the groove gets the first few thousandths free play, then there’s going to be the hammering from vibration causing the barrel to vibrate sideways, this will make the wear even faster.

When the wear is sufficient to allow movement in and out without turning the barrel, the mixture control will also be less precise.

The spring on the barrel not only holds it firmly to one side of the groove for precise mixture control, by its very side tension it keeps the barrel from hammering on the edge of the groove.

You say there’s a three year warranty on the engine? Yes, there is. Wear is not covered.

When I get one of these engines without a barrel spring I’ll have to get a spring to fit the throttle barrel.
Bill.
Old 07-10-2006, 01:35 PM
  #3781  
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not realy any thing to do with saitos but. i suspect most of you belong to flying clubs , i'm pulling my hair out trying to think us things to do at our club meetings. any suggestions???
Old 07-10-2006, 02:06 PM
  #3782  
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Drink Beer
Old 07-10-2006, 07:24 PM
  #3783  
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hi can someone tell me the measurement from the crank center line to the top of the valve cover on the saito r 90 and the r 170 need to know what size cowls it will fit thanks Donnie
Old 07-10-2006, 07:51 PM
  #3784  
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18-6? i didn't expect that. the 150 can turn it fine?
Old 07-10-2006, 08:00 PM
  #3785  
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what should i keep the rpms under with this one? 10k?

also, is it important to run less prop for breakin or not? i never did break one of these in from new.
Old 07-10-2006, 09:07 PM
  #3786  
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McEntyre:

The FA-170TS three cylinder radial is 186 mm outside diameter, the FA-90TS flat twin is 170 mm, and the FA-91 single cylinder (if that’s what you mean) is 97 mm from the crank shaft center line to the top of the rocker covers.

Whaturi:

The 18x6 is approximately the same engine load as the 16x8, shouldn’t be a problem. Saito even gives an 18x8 as the max, but I don’t think I’d go that far. Maximum running speed is 10,500 rpm, using 10K rpm as a static peak, then going rich down to 9600-9700 rpm is safe for a new engine’s first flights.

Selection of a break in prop is not a matter for concern, you’re not going to be running the engine at a sustained high load. Any prop that you would fly on the engine will do fine.

New members:

326 plopes
327 McEntyre
Welcome to you both.

Bill.
Old 07-10-2006, 09:15 PM
  #3787  
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thanks for the reply.
Old 07-10-2006, 09:55 PM
  #3788  
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Hi William,

How would you compare the performance of the Saito 56 to 2 stroke engines. I have an Evolution .46NX that moves around an Hangar 9 Arrow 40 sized plane pretty good, would you expect the Saito 56 to be comparable in power ?

They advertise the 56 as being used in 40 sized planes, I like it to more than just fly, I like it to be a little overpowered if possible, like the .46. What do you think ?

Also, is the Cline regulator better than the Iron bay, the Iron bay is like 20 bucks cheaper.... I like the aluminum also, but dont know much about either one.

Thanks,

JettPilot
Old 07-10-2006, 11:21 PM
  #3789  
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Ok I'm new to Saito, I have a relayively new FA 100 about 15 flights I bought used. The bearings seem to have a lot of play, I can see the shaft move side to side. I thought there was a post on bearing replacement procedures but can't find it. I have the engine apart except for crank removal and just want some tips on what to expect.
Thanks
John
Old 07-11-2006, 07:18 AM
  #3790  
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Jett, I've had Clines on Saitos from .30 to 2.20 and two strokes from a .53 Irvine Diesel to SuperTigre 4500, no issues. I've had an IronBay on an MDS 1.48, SuperTigre .90 Diesel conversions and on the Saito 2.20, again no issues. I have an old high compression Saito 1.50 with which you had to be very careful to set it so there was no possibility of it going lean as the fuel tank got near empty, as in too rich when the tank was full. The Cline made it a perfect engine, just set it 150 rpm rich of peak and forget about it.
Old 07-11-2006, 08:42 AM
  #3791  
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I just got a 150, can you please give me the best way to break in that Bad Boy ?
Old 07-11-2006, 02:10 PM
  #3792  
Ernie Misner
 
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ORIGINAL: JettPilot

Hi William,

How would you compare the performance of the Saito 56 to 2 stroke engines. I have an Evolution .46NX that moves around an Hangar 9 Arrow 40 sized plane pretty good, would you expect the Saito 56 to be comparable in power ?

They advertise the 56 as being used in 40 sized planes, I like it to more than just fly, I like it to be a little overpowered if possible, like the .46. What do you think ?

Also, is the Cline regulator better than the Iron bay, the Iron bay is like 20 bucks cheaper.... I like the aluminum also, but dont know much about either one.

Thanks,

JettPilot
Jett, the 56 was used a lot for replacing the 2 strokes up until a few years ago when the Saito 72 came out. You would be slightly underpowered nowadays with the 56. NOW we have the Saito 82 that weighs the same as the 72 and that is what I have in my Ultra Stick 40. It is a great combination. All the 4-strokes have great torque characteristics and you do see the 56 in some large planes. Just not planes that have good vertical performance.

Ernie
Old 07-11-2006, 07:01 PM
  #3793  
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What's the default low speed needle location on a saito 72?
Old 07-11-2006, 07:07 PM
  #3794  
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ORIGINAL: da50ex

Ok I'm new to Saito, I have a relayively new FA 100 about 15 flights I bought used. The bearings seem to have a lot of play, I can see the shaft move side to side. I thought there was a post on bearing replacement procedures but can't find it. I have the engine apart except for crank removal and just want some tips on what to expect.
Thanks
John
here is Bills method, i use it and its great just scroll down to post 965 and enjoy!!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_33...tm.htm#3631315
Old 07-11-2006, 07:26 PM
  #3795  
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THanks for that link Gary.

One change since I made that post #965 - I now use only the double sealed front bearings, the "-2RS" types, and I do not remove either seal.

Strange? Yep. But O've been assured the factory grease is sufficient for the life of the bearing.

So far no failures of the double sealed bearings.

Bill.
Old 07-11-2006, 07:30 PM
  #3796  
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What about the ceramic bearings you talk about William ? Are the double sealed bearings better than the ceramics ? Where can I buy all these magical bearings ?

JettPilot
Old 07-11-2006, 08:30 PM
  #3797  
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JettPilot- I have both engines. The .56 is a great engine with excellent characteristics; no backfiring, economical, reliable, good power, and great sound. The stock .46NT will out turn it though as it is a very powerful engine. Put a Towers plug in it, and add a Towers muffler and it has tons of power. In any case, don't use the OS 8 as it runs too cold for the Evo.

Since the Arrow is more of a trainer and weights under 6 lbs, I would think that the .46NT would be gobs of power whereas the .56 would be good engine for it as well. What happened to the .45 Evo that came with the Arrow?
Old 07-11-2006, 10:17 PM
  #3798  
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The Evolution came with the arrow. I thought it was a .46NX that came in the plane .... It came with a 3 bladed prop, flywheel, and those needle limiters all of which I took off. Does evo make a .45 ?? I dont see one listed on Horizons website.

Anyways , the evo I have, be it a .45 or a .46NX has great power and really moves around my .40 sized Hanger 9 arrow, almost vertical, but not quite. Its the perfect amount of power really, and I want a saito with about the same power as the EVO for my current project which is a .40 sized plane. I realize it wont turn as many RPM's as the 2 stroke eeevo, but if the Saito .56 climbs and has the same pull as the Evo it will be perfect

I already bought an OS #8 for my Evo, but have not put it in yet [&:]. I got 3 OS type F plugs for my Saito .56 also.

Old 07-11-2006, 10:32 PM
  #3799  
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ORIGINAL: William Robison
Strange? Yep. But O've been assured the factory grease is sufficient for the life of the bearing.
Of course the grease is good for the life of the bearing, because once the grease fails, the bearing's useful life is over ;-)

One has to wonder if (as is suggested) sealed bearings are capable of handling such torture (ie: 10K RPMs with lots of axial and radial impulse loading), why do we bother with unshielded bearings at all (in any application) ?

I have my doubts about the longevity of sealed bearings at the kind of RPMs we're running in our engines -- but I could be wrong (it has happened before, way back in 1962 -- I should have chosen the chicken rather than the shrimp :-)
Old 07-11-2006, 11:26 PM
  #3800  
William Robison
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JP:

No magic about the ceramic bearings, just a really good deal. Super price from RC_Bearings.com and excellent service life.

What we are calling ceramic bearings, more properly are composite bearings. We get the ceramic balls, but the inner and outer races are a high grade stainless steel.

In ordering bearings from any source it’s best if you will measure the original bearings, or include the number read from the bearing. Often there will not be a legible number on the bearing, you’ll have to use the dimensions. This is important – ordering in the blind with only the application stated can get you the wrong bearings. Even the lug codes don’t nail things down. As an example I have two FA-10 engines, both high compression ABC types, both have the same lug code, and different rear bearings.

I say again, no magic, just very good quality bearings. Highly recommended.

SpiritSTLFlyer:

For break in you’re always safe following the book on a Saito. I don’t though, If you want to check my way PM or email me your email address, I’ll send a copy of Saito Notes.

tdrnmartin:

The starting position of the LS adjuster is with the flat slotted end about 1/16” below the end of the throttle lever. This will be a rich setting but the engine will run, you can lean it from there.

Xjet:

“But I've been assured the factory grease is sufficient for the life of the bearing.” That is rather fatuous on the face of it, isn’t it? I suppose I should have said the life of the engine. The life of the front bearing is much higher than even the ceramic rear bearing. I’ve pulled engines down that have destroyed the rear bearing, the double sealed front bearing can be used over. I have yet to see a double sealed front bearing fail.

The double sealed front bearings are rated over 16K rpm with the trapped grease, and the open ceramic rear are rated somewhere over 30K with oil lubrication.

I’ve thought about a double sealed rear bearing in these engines, the con rod and the piston would still be lubricated normally, but I haven’t figured a way to oil the cam shaft and the valve gear. I have several ways, but none I’m willing to trust.

New members:
329 SpiritSTLFlyer
330 tdrnmartin

Bill.


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