the Wasp

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yes Dave, it did work, LOL first thing I thought was, that something was wrong with the site LOL

Jim

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

That 300 sounds almost like my brothers Cessna 182 when he taxis.

Quikturn

My Feedback: (12)

Jesse Open

The 300 Saito twin is a great sounding engine. We have only one of them at our field. A fellow named "Dave". A real fine scratch built Smith Miniplane from home drawn plans. Quite a crowd pleaser and the sound is wonderful.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Bill Robison speculated that it might be possible to have an ignition curve by using two different heat range plugs. His thought was that as the load or rpm or both increased the cooler plug would come more and more into play advancing the timing. I dunno, it sounds possible, there would be no way to be certain though.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Gary et al, I'm tossing this out here for some think tank type discussion, I have been doing a lot of thinking on the subject of whether Saito cams have or don't have acceleration/deceleration ramps on their cams. I think not and my reasoning is this. If they did have them, Saito would specify a single digit valve lash figure, not a range of .03 mm to .10 mm or .002" to .004". The wide end of that range would skip the ramp altogether and the narrow end would radically alter the cam timing. I may be all wet on that, but that's my thinking. So there, have at it.

Jesse Open

The hotter plug would most likely dominate, it surely would get no cooler.


A bit different perhaps but this is where on board glow has come into play. Since the hot plugs we often use on four stroke/cycle engines is primarly used for low and idle speeds. The hot plugs also often force slightly richer mixtures on top end. When employing OBG in the past, I did not use hot plugs, but instead medium to cold plugs. I was able to run leaner mixtures at top speed without the attendant prop tossing.

Glowgeek

Agreed. I have never run an OBG, never had to with small-medium sized single cylinder Saitos, they'll idle at 2K through an entire tank of fuel with an OS F plug if tuned correctly. Personally I like to run a a lot of fuel through my engines for increased oil flow so I lean towards hotter plugs in both 2C and 4c engines. Just my thinking.

Glowgeek

Plotting the cam profile with a degree wheel is the only way to know for sure. On a similar note, I'm interested in knowing whether or not Saito grinds a taper into their cam lobes to encourage tappet rotation. I've read they do and they don't on a few threads. This 82 I'm currently working on had one tappet with even wear on the bottom bevel and one that obviously was not rotating in the tappet bore. I've seen this before but always attributed it to gummed up tappets/bores.

Jesse Open

"Tuning" is exactly what can be achieved when you carefully use OBG to run cold plugs. "Tuning" is tailoring an engine's operating parameters to obtain specific running characteristics.Tuning, is always a part of the entire operating practices here.
Even tune the oil package, I actually trimmed oil content from the 25% of years ago to only the 14% I use now. This season, I am cutting back to 12% oil on the larger Saito engines in the fleet just to see how that works out. Using at present 14% oil, with 2% to 4% of that being castor. The larger engines not requiring as much oil as smaller engines.

My original OBG application was a club trainer/loaner plane to eliminate the need for manual connection and disconnection of the starter battery. That worked very well for many years. Every one who used it liked it well. It was while operating that plane when I noticed the benefits of the colder plug.

Any cam evaluation should probably be done for the most part with new cams. Easy enough to do. Some may be very surprised when they see the actual, real world variation in production examples as well.

I agree with Dave regarding the quieting ramps. Very little to gain from even trying to employ "quieting ramps" on these diminutive engines. Pretty busy for such a slight profile. Lifter rotation is easily promoted with lifter bores offset from lobe centerline. lifters also rely on a very slight concavity of the lifter face. All of this may not come into play with toy engines.

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

Gary, would a Dial Indicator tell us if there was a slight Ramp at the Cam's Base Circle ??

edit) I guess you would use an Indicator with that Degree Wheel, daa

Jim

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

personally, as of now, I wish Saito would do 2 things,

1) enlarge the Diameter of their Tappets,
2) go to a 48 Pitch Gear on the Cam Gear and Crank,

both of these small changers will ,,
1) increase Cam Timing Accuracy,
2) smooth out the action of the mechanics,
3) produce a smother power output,
4) increase power a bit,
5) lower the sound level of the mechanics,
6) lower the wear in parts do to less vibrations and larger Tappet Diameter,

sorry for changing the subject my friends, but I feel strongly that it is time for Saito to go to this step !

Jim

Glowgeek

In the past I've used lithium grease for new cams and/or tappets on model engines. Anyone use moly assembly lube for a new cam and tappets?

Walther

My Feedback: (1)

Any out there?

acdii

Moly is good for assembly, and depending on what the base lube is that carries the moly, it could make for a good run in lube, but Moly is a dry lubricant and washes off easily, so you want to be careful not to use too much or it will glob up in the housing and collect junk. Moly doesn't "stick" to metal, so even though it is one of the best lubricants, it doesn't work well in these engines. Now it were a wet sump with a quantity of oil to splash around, then it would be a great way to lube the engine for break in.

Glowgeek

Thanks. I guess I'll continue using lithium grease for break in then, haven't seen any negatives with my other engines.

Anyone know what grease, if any, that Saito assembles with?

Jesse Open

Glowgeek

If you want to ensure the most accurate valve timing with factory parts you can make a custom thickness cam cover gasket like I do. The custom thickness minimizes gear backlash but allows for oiling and heat expansion. My 56 actually required no gasket at all to set the gear backlash to my liking. Do my engines run better going through all that trouble? I'm not sure but I like tinkering and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

I wonder if those gaskets Dave buys are thinner than Saitos ??

Jim
I got me some Saitos

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

my friend Jack (may he rest easy) built many hundreds of oval racing engines, dirt and asphalt engines.. he used a Cam oil "that I remember was" named LL-5, it came in a very small white plastic bottle with a flip up spout, I believe it was only a 3o.z. bottle,, but for the life of me I can not find it on the Net, but I am sure if I go down to the parts store where his old shop was that store will still have some,

any one hear ever heard of this LL-5 Cam Lube ????

Jim

Rudolph Hart

Me neither it comes up over here as a log in page for a google account.Perhaps dave can post it here direct,i have the gas version of the fa300t and would like to see the vid of the glow version,it's a savage animal that will suck light floor carpets squares up,shred them,and fire them straight out the back window behind my engine bench in the shed.I make gaskets out of the glossy front cover of 1970's era playboy magazines...howzat for foresight!

Gary do all klotz rc oils contain castor? i use klotz KL200 syn with the fg57t too.I looked at their website just now and they also sell wax candles in neat looking tins that you can put on your workbench and light at night...now,if anyone makes the same thing with a mix that smells like castrol R and methanol getting burnt in a big high compression vincent vee twin,i want to know about it.

ps anyone know where walther (ppk pistols) can find a set of fa270t stacks?

Jesse Open

That was primarily ZDDP, GM sold the same thaing, labeled as "MOS" for "Motor Oil Suppliment". It was sold under many labels and names as cam assembly lube. Inkenderian, Crane etc also supplied it. It is what I mentioned in my last post. Even the old blue label STP had a huge dose of it!
As I said, Castor oil performs a similar task in our four stroke engines.

"

How ZDDP Works

Jesse Open

Regarding Saito cam gears et-al:

Saito cam gears have been known to break at times .Seen more than one, less than 10.
Coarse pitch gears are generally stronger than than fine pitch gears. Saito gears are already a bit handicapped being made from sintered, powdered metal. Not nearly as strong or reliable as heat treated gears cut from bar . A couple thousandths undersize gasket with worn gears may be ok but I would avoid pressing that much further, especially with newer gear sets. Getting near bottoming is not a good thing . It can stress gear teeth as well as minimizing or eliminating oil space that contributes to gear life. It also can rob power from the added drag. A little clearance is part of gear design and the factory takes steps to make that part within the production tolerances.
Hobbsy IIRC already measured the after-market gaskets some time ago and found them to be same as Saito thickness.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Some of you may have been trying to remember Lubriplate, (by the Fisk Brothers) there are several recipes, one of them was almost used universally as an assembly lube for bearings and valve trains.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Try this one gents.