scratchonly

I inverted a 65 in my 60" Jungmeister and it ran fine. Inow have it upright in aCurtiss hawk and it is likely my best saito. 56 is great also. I replaced the 65 with a saito 80 and then the fun began.

scratchonly

I replaced a 14x8 with a 13x7 3 blade in a 90 4 stroke; performance was fine. Perhaps you can prorate from here.

Good luck.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

JP:

At the same power level the FA-82 will have no more vibration than the FA-72. I’ve posted this before. Since the 82 has more power available, at full throttle the 82 will have more torque induced vibration than the FA-72. This can not be avoided, but using a lighter prop it can be minimized. In any case the vibration shouldn’t be a problem, the camera’s effective shutter speed will be to high.

And as noted, when properly adjusted there’s not a lot of vibration to start with.

If you are using a large format film camera you could be using a really fine grain film that needs a slower shutter speed. If so I think the air speed of the plane would be more problem than engine vibration.

And remember there are always soft mounts. I don’t think you would need one though.

Bill.

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

That sounds good William, the camera is for video, you can see what I am doing here

http://www.putfile.com/jetpilot

You have talked many times about the backplate causing problems in the .72 , my question is why is Saito using a plastic backplate for these two engines ? I really hate the idea of having a plastic part like that, and would gladly pay the extra for an aluminum one like my .56 has.

I know its where the carb attached to it that caused the problems, and have read your descriptions, but I still cant picture it in my mind. Any chance of you posting some pictures of the bad part to watch for ? Should I get some extra intake O-Rings for my .82 just in case, or is this never a problem with this engine ?

JetPilot

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Edited to remove useless info

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

JP:

Any business has to have income to match expenses, monies beyond that point are profit. The greater the profit the happier the owners and/or stock holders. Profit can be increased by raising prices or lowering costs. I prefer lowering costs so long as quality is maintained.

OS has increased profits by going to nickel plating in the cylinders, but that definitely lowered their quality.

Saito, by using a plastic back plate on the 72 and 82 engines has also lowered their cost. The early version gave no problem on the FA-82, I think because the intake pipe is a snug fit into the cylinder, it can’t vibrate. The FA-72 though, with a smaller pipe was a loose fit and vibrated easily. Combined with the flex of the back plate, it regularly ate the intake pipe seal. This was indeed a lowering of quality, but a lot less expensive to repair than replacing a peeled liner in an OS.

Now, with the latest redesign of the plastic back plate the problem is cured.

Saito recognized the problem and corrected it, OS is still using their cheap nickel plating.

Draw your own conclusion.

Bill.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

JP:

Sorry, you wanted pictures. Here you are.

The first is the old style back plate, compare it to the second picture. No way to mistake one for the other.

HTH.

Bill.

IronCross

Bill
I think your being overly optomistic when you say the new back plate has cured the .72 problem.. I have replaced mine twice, the last time about a year ago... Every time the engine pops or backfires it still backs the head end of the manifold out and it starts running like you know what... What did finally cure it was the wire it down thing you mentioned earlier... I have't had a problem since then... It is totally embarassing however to be seen with a Saito held together with "bubble gum and bailing wire" at the field... The magnum guys get a real kick out of it...

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

IC:

Saito had two versions of the early shaped back plate. Their first change was going from plain plastic to a “GRP� material to stiffen it. It still wasn’t stiff enough.

So far, I’ve seen no problem with the reshaped back plate. Please check my post above, be sure you do have the latest version.

Thanks.

Bill.

IronCross

Bill
Looks like the latest and was told by Horizon tech's it was... I think there may be more to this then I am aware of... I purchased 2 Saito .72's at the same time... The problem one which I refer to as the old design came with the weak back plate, a curved exaust pipe and a straight muffler... It did not even have the little metal wsher that the replacement gasket sets come with that fits the intake manifold at the head... The carb broke off the back plate while in flight on that one... Since replaceing the back plate with the "rienforced" tab on it I have had no problems with it breaking... However air leaks at the head have been a persistant problem... The second engine which I refer to as the later design came with the rienforced back plate, the straight exaust manifold and 90 degree muffler... It also had the washer where the intake joined the head.. This engine has given me no problems and runs like a swiss watch... Visually comparing the two I can see no differance in the backplates, intake manifolds etc now... I was going to try a new intake manifold thinking there might have been some sort of change there but I tried the "bailing wire" thing and it seems to be working..
It may be I got the latest at the time and there is another update out there again... Horizon offered to fix the "old" one as it was still under warranty but I declined... The cost of shipping the engine back and forth was more then that of the parts... Big deal... I wanted to send them the broken parts for exchange but they wouldn't do it... GRRRRRRR

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

Horizon is GREAT for backing thier products. I buy from Horizon even if its a little more (ususally it is as cheap as anyone ). I would send the Saito 72 back to them if I were you IronCross. There is a good chance they will do a complete rebuild in addition to just fixing the bad part, they did for me on another engine

WR:

OS should be boycotted out of business as far as I am concerned. When a company gets so greedy that they produce a product that will fail before its time, even after it became a well known problem, they just profited even more from jacking everyone on the price of the Piston and Liner that should have never had gone bad in the first place. OS got greedy way beyond just trying to make a fair profit, they should not be in business. I will never buy another OS [:'(]

Im glad Saito fixed the backplates, its amazing that those two little ridges are enough to make a difference [X(] I would rather paid an extra 10 or 20 bucks for the engine to be made with an aluminum backplate though [sm=frown.gif]

In a perfect world, Saito would be reading this thread from end to end, and talking to WR for a few changes that would make good engines perfect

JetPilot

IronCross

This all started a couple of years ago and the engine is out of warenty now.. Guess I will never know what they might have done
Guess I have been spoiled by Tower... I haven't gotten nearly the service from Horizon that I get from Tower... Had a Seagull Decathlon from Horizon that came with part of the stringers gone from the tail... Looked like mice ate them away .. Took 4 weeks to get a replacement from them by the time they sent the shipping labels and I returned the parts etc... Simular situation from Tower and I had the parts in 3 days...

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Bill, just how new are these backplates for the .72 and .82? I'm talking about part # SAI7217A.

RVM

It would be cool if Saito would produce a "supercharged" engine.

JPal101

My Feedback: (32)

Well, I put the 125 back in the box and am sending to Horizon, still have the same old problem it runs too hot, maximum rpm is 8200 with needle valve at 1.5 turns out. I have tried 15x6, 15x8 apc and 16x6 wood. It just wont run rich, as soon as I try it runs down to about 7800, much to slow for me. I have spoken to Horizon about the problem and one of the possibilities is that the timing is not correct. Any opinions?

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Barry:

I first became aware of the new pattern back plate for the FA-72 about a year ago, IronCross says he has one that’s now out of warranty. That means they have been in production for at least three years.

As memory serves, I got one of the old pattern no more than 1½ years ago. Must have been old stock.

RVM:

Supercharging? Could be done, but is it really needed?

Bill.

gjeffers

mine ran a little doggish for the first few gallons of fuel and then it started picking up(was worried a little myself) but its now turning a 16.5x5 at 8900, not bad i dont think, but like i said it had me worried a bit.

JPal101

My Feedback: (32)

Gary,

I can see a little doggish but, on this day I happen to have two of my buddies right next to me with the exact same engine, one of them broke his in the same day I did mine. His has better low end response and sounds much more crisp than mine. His HS needle is about 2.5 turns out and mine is 1.5. He is turning higher RPMS with the same prop and not a near as hot. I have 4 other Saitos and none of them ran this way,

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

--------------


Every once in a while an engine is assembled with all of the tolerances heading in the wrong direction. It happens. It sounds like that is what you have inadvertently purchased. I'd send it back with a note explaining my dissatisfaction. I will be very surprised if Horizon doesn't make it right. This assumes that it is still under warranty.

bfreee

Hi guys, is there anyone who is running a saito 180 with a slim line pitts muffler & a cline regulator? I'm having nothing but trouble with this setup. If i use the stock saito muffler, I dont have this problem. I want to use the pitts because it fits some much better. I actually don't even use the cline with the stock muffler. The slimline makes much less back pressure but it is enough. The engine stalls when I try to hover. Anyone using a cline for 3d with a fuel tank on cg I would love to talk to you.

Uncle Ted

I am very DISSATISFIED with a new SAITO 80!!! After running more than a gallon of fuel thru this engine it did not run well in mid - range or idle. I then pressure tested fuel tank ,replaced and tested fuel lines, bypassed the remote fueler,cleaned out high speed needle valve port,reset idle screw to the 1mm spacing,pulled the throttle/carb barrel and cleaned, reset the throttle stop screw to get throttle barrel movement,RTV'ed the intake manifold at the carb and reset with RTV the intake manifold at head , checked and adjusted the valve tappet clearances and replaced the glowplug with an OS F four stroke plug. I remounted engine which started easily and with 12.5x6 APC prop,15% Wildcat Premium Extra (18% oil) peaked around 10750rpm, richened mixture to 10200-300rpm. Setup idle to 2900-3000 ran several thirty second idle tests after leaning out the idle mixture. READY TO FLY so I thought! After several circles of the field the engine started running rough in mid -range and would not idle. GOT it down with a high idle. Then went back to bench and original problems were back- would not idle below 4000 and mid range was ruff, hi-end seemed ok but not as smooth as before the flight. The engine was running to rich at all speeds and at idle and apparently was unable to hold needle settings. Smoking heavily indicating rich mixture also.
I have run out of ideas!! I am open to any suggestions. I see HORIZON has Ugrade carb kit coming out in late Oct. , what gives?HELP!!!!

bfreee

ted, is the engine brand new?

Uncle Ted

This engine FA-80 is brand new!

bfreee

I know that we rc guys always are in a hurry & want to fix everything, but I would say something is wrong with it that you shouldn't have to deal with. Horizons service is great & you could probably get an exchange if you pressed them. I have several saito's & all of them have always run great right out of the box with the glow plug & parts that come with them. Only time I have problems is when I change things.

Uncle Ted

Thanks ,I intend to call Horizon on Monday and will press for an exchange.