Welcome to Club SAITO !
07-22-2019, 06:31 PM
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I tested the balance again today and it's great, now, only if it wont rip out a retract on landing, I read a review on the plane and it said it needed it's retract's bell-crank mounts reinforced, luckily I did that before I even read the review
Jim
07-22-2019, 07:26 PM
Moderator
JesseeOpen- is that the carb upgrade kit? Or is there more to it? I don't see a kit that include a LSN. Maybe that's hardened steel and not prone to damage?
https://www.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?I=LXJDMK&P=SM
https://www.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?I=LXJDMK&P=SM
07-23-2019, 02:59 AM
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Probably not needed, it's the same material as the spray bar, in normal operation it does not touch or rub anything. Unless as Gary mentioned someone screwed the needle in too far, then it would flair the spray bar but not be damaged itself.
The engine code for the 80 is I or J for the GK.
The engine code for the 80 is I or J for the GK.
07-23-2019, 03:18 AM
Jester, Macgregor in the UK has very complete parts listings for Saitos. Their site comes up as a hit in a google search every time I type in "Saito FAxx parts"
To find parts online I just do a search on the actual Saito part eg SAIxxxx. Searching online by engine codes is too confusing for me and I've never found it to be necessary.
Saito FA-80 Complete Parts Listing
I suppose it's possible to wreck a Saito spraybar seat by overtightening the lsn but I've never seen it and have no idea what symptoms would arise.
To find parts online I just do a search on the actual Saito part eg SAIxxxx. Searching online by engine codes is too confusing for me and I've never found it to be necessary.
Saito FA-80 Complete Parts Listing
I suppose it's possible to wreck a Saito spraybar seat by overtightening the lsn but I've never seen it and have no idea what symptoms would arise.
07-23-2019, 03:23 AM
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The spray bar gets bell mouthed and the taper matches the taper of the needle and it becomes an on and off switch. Too much fuel or none. Actually it would have the correct fuel mixture at idle and full throttle, all part throttle would be too rich.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 07-23-2019 at 03:25 AM.
07-23-2019, 03:28 AM
Thanks Dave, useful info. I've heard about damaged seats but have never actually experienced them.
07-23-2019, 03:42 AM
JesseeOpen- is that the carb upgrade kit? Or is there more to it? I don't see a kit that include a LSN. Maybe that's hardened steel and not prone to damage?
https://www.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?I=LXJDMK&P=SM
https://www.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?I=LXJDMK&P=SM
That is the kit. Like I was saying, bottoming out the needle hard can distort the seat and beget problems of all flavors.
07-23-2019, 04:23 AM
Same here, my only new arf was purchased last winter. I haven't completed a kit in while. I just keep getting such sweet deals on used planes needing minor repairs that I can't get motivated to finish my kits. With the exception of gassers only two of my planes don't have Saitos mounted up front. I've got a long way to go to catch up with some of you but I'm getting there.
It is a race to see who can die with the most Saitos, isn't it?
It is a race to see who can die with the most Saitos, isn't it?
I lost track of how many I have but I’m sure there ‘s guys who have more.
07-24-2019, 07:15 PM
My Feedback: (1)
I ran the smelly 2st today, you can see the result here in my link. I hate to say it because I know how Pete feel's about 2st's.. but, it ran so good you would have thought it was made by Saito 
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/glow...-infinity.html
Jim
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/glow...-infinity.html
Jim
07-25-2019, 12:34 AM
Jim this would be a good home for your os50sx, i always preferred at least part of a rotor blade to remain attached on two stroke heli's because the throttle usually got stuck wide open. Then we could watch it do the funky chicken dance, always entertaining
Jester if an fa80 carb is cheap to buy new would you do that ?
Gary have you ever tried adding petrol to a radial saito fourstroke fuel mix to keep one or two of the bottom cylinders lit at idle during the early flying period. Have tried that on another manufacturers seven cylinder radial and it worked well.
ps i liked your comment on flying ashes, over here it's one crash and your ash, with a few beers and a suitably mournful expression.
07-25-2019, 05:21 AM
Ok guys here’s a question
i have always run my engine’s up right or in there sides. And normally have no issues. also don’t care to cut a hole in the cowl.
But I see a lot of people that refuse to cut the cowl and put the engine’s in inverted. This is were the question is why when you mount the engine inverted that problem’s come in to play. Especially with tuning issues like now that it’s inverted it doesn’t idle it doesn’t have transition it floods easy can’t keep it running I have seen numerous problems so what do you feel is going on so that I can help you guys that mount her engines upside down
i have always run my engine’s up right or in there sides. And normally have no issues. also don’t care to cut a hole in the cowl.
But I see a lot of people that refuse to cut the cowl and put the engine’s in inverted. This is were the question is why when you mount the engine inverted that problem’s come in to play. Especially with tuning issues like now that it’s inverted it doesn’t idle it doesn’t have transition it floods easy can’t keep it running I have seen numerous problems so what do you feel is going on so that I can help you guys that mount her engines upside down
07-25-2019, 05:44 AM
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Almost trash airplanes. I once bought everything from a young guy who was getting out of the hobby. He had some odd pieces and parts from crashed airplanes also and when I told him I didn’t want those, he said that I had to take everything or nothing. Sure, I took everything and just figured I would tras what I didn’t want when I got home. In particular there was an intact Lowboy fuselage and an intact Sig Kavalier wing. Long story short, I ended up fitting that Kavalier wing to the Lowboy fuselage and damned if it fid’t become my everyday flyer for several years until I crashed it on a very windy cross wind landing. That was about 15 years ago and I couldn’t bring myself to throw it away. It is very repairable. One day I am going to get my “Lowvalier” back in the air.
07-25-2019, 07:16 AM
Ok guys here’s a question
i have always run my engine’s up right or in there sides. And normally have no issues. also don’t care to cut a hole in the cowl.
But I see a lot of people that refuse to cut the cowl and put the engine’s in inverted. This is were the question is why when you mount the engine inverted that problem’s come in to play. Especially with tuning issues like now that it’s inverted it doesn’t idle it doesn’t have transition it floods easy can’t keep it running I have seen numerous problems so what do you feel is going on so that I can help you guys that mount her engines upside down
i have always run my engine’s up right or in there sides. And normally have no issues. also don’t care to cut a hole in the cowl.
But I see a lot of people that refuse to cut the cowl and put the engine’s in inverted. This is were the question is why when you mount the engine inverted that problem’s come in to play. Especially with tuning issues like now that it’s inverted it doesn’t idle it doesn’t have transition it floods easy can’t keep it running I have seen numerous problems so what do you feel is going on so that I can help you guys that mount her engines upside down
07-25-2019, 07:25 AM
Rather than adding a "regulator" and all the hosing, when I cannot get the tank in the proper position, I make a spacer to fit between the carb body and the intake tube. Works like a champ .can't lower the tank, raise the carb
I posted a pic a while back of one I use on 150 Saito . The medium and small block are even easier to make.
I posted a pic a while back of one I use on 150 Saito . The medium and small block are even easier to make.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 07-25-2019 at 10:24 AM.
07-25-2019, 02:31 PM
I don't have flooding problems with inverted Saitos with tanks in there normal position. I simply hold my engine kill button while turning off the plane. I fuel up before turning the plane back on. Little or no priming is required to cold start an inverted small/medium case Saito with an electric starter. I don't own any large case Saitos so I can't comment on those.
Edit: I meant Throttle Cut Button.
Edit: I meant Throttle Cut Button.
Last edited by Glowgeek; 07-26-2019 at 02:34 AM.
07-25-2019, 08:08 PM
My Feedback: (1)
I don't have flooding problems with inverted Saitos with tanks in there normal position. I simply hold my engine kill button while turning off the plane. I fuel up before turning the plane back on. Little or no priming is required to cold start an inverted small/medium case Saito with an electric starter. I don't own any large case Saitos so I can't comment on those.
Jim
07-25-2019, 08:15 PM
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Pete, there is a video on YouTube somewhere of a guy flying his Raptor Heli, well he was hovering and he gave it some throttle and the Head went straight up, way, way up and the air-frame went straight down. the guy forgot to put the Jesus-Bolt in that holds the Head to the Main Shaft.
oops
Jim
oops
Jim
07-25-2019, 09:40 PM
I don't have flooding problems with inverted Saitos with tanks in there normal position. I simply hold my engine kill button while turning off the plane. I fuel up before turning the plane back on. Little or no priming is required to cold start an inverted small/medium case Saito with an electric starter. I don't own any large case Saitos so I can't comment on those.
07-25-2019, 09:59 PM
Rather than adding a "regulator" and all the hosing, when I cannot get the tank in the proper position, I make a spacer to fit between the carb body and the intake tube. Works like a champ .can't lower the tank, raise the carb
I posted a pic a while back of one I use on 150 Saito . The medium and small block are even easier to make.
I posted a pic a while back of one I use on 150 Saito . The medium and small block are even easier to make.
Dave have you heard of Helmholtz resonance, also known as dynamic supercharging ? If you alter the intake tube length ie in this case you lengthen the intake tube, will that move the torque curve backwards slightly, and is it measurable do you think. Modern production japanese and european superbikes employ electronically variable length inlet tract tubes chasing the best of both worlds.
That would be funny to see jim. There's a you tube vid made over in asia. Imagine a giant ferris wheel laid on it's side. Instead of chairs there are big rockets attached that need to be lit by hand at the same time, takes plenty of brave volunteers but man you should see this monster climb, sounds and looks speccy cheers mate.
07-26-2019, 02:04 AM
Bruce came up with a very good fix using the cline demand regulator, perhaps you are not familiar with them. There is no extra anything, the regulator becomes part of the same tank to carb line.
Dave have you heard of Helmholtz resonance, also known as dynamic supercharging ? If you alter the intake tube length ie in this case you lengthen the intake tube, will that move the torque curve backwards slightly, and is it measurable do you think. Modern production japanese and european superbikes employ electronically variable length inlet tract tubes chasing the best of both worlds.
Dave have you heard of Helmholtz resonance, also known as dynamic supercharging ? If you alter the intake tube length ie in this case you lengthen the intake tube, will that move the torque curve backwards slightly, and is it measurable do you think. Modern production japanese and european superbikes employ electronically variable length inlet tract tubes chasing the best of both worlds.
Very familiar with the Cline and similar contraptions. Used them at times many years ago when I still ran crappy two strokes. Used them just enough to prefer avoiding them Also familiar with, and much prefer the YS pressure system as it comes with a great engine in the package
I generally try to keep the engines dependency on gimmicks to a minimum. Parts not there cannot fail.
Haven't seen any noticeable difference in the " power curve" from making the intake tract 12 mm or so longer. For my type of flying it has not been an issue anyhow.
Lonnie, I always use the throttle cutoff too ,regardless the engine orientation. Just as good, all around practice.
Plenty of methods out there, pick and choose. Preferring to keep complexity to minimum first priority here is just getting the tank in the best place, failing that, reposition the carb. Makes the inverted Saito run just like any other positioning.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 07-26-2019 at 02:56 AM.
07-26-2019, 02:31 AM
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Dave have you heard of Helmholtz resonance, also known as dynamic supercharging ? If you alter the intake tube length ie in this case you lengthen the intake tube, will that move the torque curve backwards slightly, and is it measurable do you think. Modern production japanese and european superbikes employ electronically variable length inlet tract tubes chasing the best of both worlds.
I am familiar with the concept but have never owned anything so equipped, if memory serves me correctly Bill Robison calculated that it would take a 17" tube to have enough ram effect to make a measurable change. And then only at a single rpm. The Ford Taurus SHO had tunable intake tracts back in the 90's.
I am familiar with the concept but have never owned anything so equipped, if memory serves me correctly Bill Robison calculated that it would take a 17" tube to have enough ram effect to make a measurable change. And then only at a single rpm. The Ford Taurus SHO had tunable intake tracts back in the 90's.
07-26-2019, 04:36 AM
The Helmholtz principle is used in many areas, in audio from microphones to speakers as well as band pass filters. I love making ribbon microphones from scratch and often employ Heimholtz principles in their design.
With internal combustion engines, the Heimholtz effect is most often used in exhaust systems.
IIRC, the Ford Taurus SHO engine was designed and possibly even built by Yamaha.
In the 1990s, GM used variable tract intakes in conjunction with variable valve timing as well.
With internal combustion engines, the Heimholtz effect is most often used in exhaust systems.
IIRC, the Ford Taurus SHO engine was designed and possibly even built by Yamaha.
In the 1990s, GM used variable tract intakes in conjunction with variable valve timing as well.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 07-26-2019 at 09:21 AM.
07-26-2019, 05:17 AM
When building race engines, both intake and exhaust lengths are taken into consideration. Same length headers are critical for good flow, as well as same length intakes. If you look at the 5.0 Coyote, the intake runners are all the same length. I believe many applications of carb engines used 2 or more carbs specifically so they could maintain equal length intake runners.
07-26-2019, 05:25 AM
Of course they are, in racing engines
Especially where a narrow, peaky power band is desired.The equal length efforts are often not "tuned" to a particular resonance at all. Just done as a balancing effort.
The Helmholtz "resonator" effect has more to do with the spent gasses, mufflers in particular.
Heimholtz defined many principles related to gas pressure waves. The resonator effect is but one of them.
Especially where a narrow, peaky power band is desired.The equal length efforts are often not "tuned" to a particular resonance at all. Just done as a balancing effort.
The Helmholtz "resonator" effect has more to do with the spent gasses, mufflers in particular.
Heimholtz defined many principles related to gas pressure waves. The resonator effect is but one of them.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 07-26-2019 at 09:21 AM.
07-26-2019, 07:27 AM