TCrafty

N1EDM,

Thanks for the reply. I just can't figure out why there's SO MUCH fuel. I mean, the bottom of the plane will be soaked after just one flight. Neither of my other two Saitos have that problem. After flying the Senior, fuel was actually puddling inside the plane! I cleaned it all out but don't want to fly it too often like that and soak the airframe. Would timing have anything to do with it? I DID have the engine apart to put in new bearings. It runs fine, just VERY dirty. I do have a short tube on the breather as well. Would a ring be needed-- blow-by?

cloudancer03

My Feedback: (22)

hi donkey..I am going to go with the plan and mount the 150 inverted.I agree that the satio works great withe the spacewalker inside the cowl.the 150 is the same size as the 120 but with a bigger bore.I would have gone with a 120 but not having one made my decision easy.lol..I am hoping over the winter to pick up a satio 125 inasmuch as I dont have one and am wanting to fly more and more planes in that size range..

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

A .62 is coming in a couple of days.

thanosg2004

Hi there,
could someone please explain why a SAITO FA60 twin is more expensive than a Saito 100 twin ?
I am building a Goldberg cub and I am thinking of using a SAITO twin ( 60t 90ts or 100t ).
Any suggestions in choosing engine ?

Thanks,
Thanos.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The current 100T uses a single throw crank and and two single cylinder cam shafts. Many of the parts or at least the unmachined castings are common with the higher volume single cylinder engines.

The 60 & 90 have a double throw crank and a multiple cylinder cam with gears to drive it on the back of the case. Almost everything about these two engines is made just for the twin.

thanosg2004

Thanks for the usefull info.
Do you think that the 60t will pull will authority my Goldberg cub or should I go for the 90ts ?
Thanks again,

Thanos.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

If you want authority you will need the 90. The 60 was brought out for the 40 size Cub and flies it very scale like.

The 90 is intended for float equipped Cubs.

The 60 has comparable power to somewhere around the 45S-50 single cylinder engine.

The 90Ts is more comparable with a 65 single cylinder

These two engines are even fire.[hr]
The 100T has a odd firing order and sounds like a cross between a John Deere and a Harley.

The 100 T compares more with the Saito 72, & 80 single cylinder engines

gjeffers

TCrafty, check and see if it might be coming from the front of the engine, a leaking front seal after bearing replacement is not unusual
my 100 has leaked since i replaced mine, i just carry a extra rag[:@]

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

As long as it's leaking out the front bearing, you can be assured that the front bearing is getting oil.

The 100 came from the factory with a 2RS type rubber sealed bearing. A lot of the replacements were just shielded bearings.

There have been a few 100's to loose the factory front bearing due to dry rust?

az3d

My Feedback: (59)

Help, I have a saito 150 I am putting on a peakmodel edge 540. I am having trouble getting it to idle low but the problem is I might be trying to get it to idle too low (about 1300 rpm). What is the correct idle speed for a broke in 150? Thanks

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Around 2000 rpm

az3d

My Feedback: (59)

Thanks, I will try that.

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

TCrafty (replying to post 5505),

You mentioned that the engine was rebuilt. I think that if it was mis-timed, it wouldn't run very well, if at all. However, you made me think. I had a rough running engine that I could partially smooth out with the high-speed needle. It turns out that my low-speed needle was waaaay out (about 5+ turns) and I hadn't noticed. Once I smoothed that out, the engine ran better.

I wonder if you might have a rich low speed needle that might be causing this problem... just a guess.

Bob

TCrafty

Thanks guys. I'll check the front bearing and also the low-speed needle. I read somewhere that the low-speed needle on the plastic throttle armed engines should be slightly in from flush whereas the metal armed throttles should be flush. Is this correct?

gjeffers

that is correct for factory settings, but not for a well tuned engine, saitos are very rich from the factory.

Jimnie

Saito Friends,
Ok, I know more than I need to know about running my, uh, many Saito engines but I have never ran one of the 3 cylinders, I need a little help.

Seems I finished the new Hangar 9 Sopwith Camel and mounted a brand new 3 cylinder 90 in it. It looks so cool that it took one night of just staring at it before I could get around to running the thing (before going to the field of course!). I also used the Saito wire harness for the three plugs. Well it didn't start.

I am using a power panel (12V supply) to light the glow plugs but the glow driver output won't provide enough power for the three plugs. What can I use to light the three plugs? I have the connection for the remote glow connection and do not have access to the three plugs when the cowl is installed. (it is a Camel after all). I am thinking about making a 2 cell nicad (3V nominal) to see if I can light them. The glow driver on the power panel wont even light two plugs.

I know people have connected three drivers to the plugs but this seems crazy, and it doesn't work well with a totally encowled engine.

By the way, the 3 Cylinder fits entirely within the cowl with room to spare and the 5" overall lenght of engine and mount is exactly the same dimension that is used for a single cylinder engine in the Camel thanks to the recessed firewall. This was just way to much fun so I have to get it going this weekend for Christmas Cheer!!

Anyone have some (actual) experience with this combo?

Jimnie

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

You need more amperage not more voltage.

Use a glow starter with a "D" cell battery. 1.5 Volt

The power panel glow starter system does not work with multiple plugs. It uses a interrupter to reduce 12v to power the single glow plug without blowing the plug. When you have three plugs there is not enough "on" dwell time.

3 volts from a battery will destroy the plugs unless the current draw is such that it pulls the voltage below two volts.

Genesis_twin

Jimnie,

I had the same problem with lighting my plugs on my 182T. I was going through many of the hobbico rectangular 1.2V dry cell batteries ( which I suspect is only a box with a bunch of D cells in it ). Then I tried to find a power panel that could handle the amps and fried two of them.

I finally figured out that I could use my DuraTrax Ice Battery Charger as a power supply in motor burn-in mode. It is 12Vdc in and "10A Constant Current (30A surge)", programmable voltage out. I set it at 1.7V and two glow plugs pull 6-7 Amps. It should work with three plugs. If you want I can run a test latter. It is not exactly cheap but it solved my problem.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Pictures????????

Jimnie

Genesis,
Now I think you are on to something here. I have a 12V charger with adjustable voltage from 0-12. I'll see what I can do with it. I will just run the voltage up until it glows, should be about 1.7-2.0 I would expect. Thanks for that one, easy test to see if it works because it can be powered by the 12v gel cell in the field box and the output are the same connectors as my power panel! Cool.

Also, I have found that the Expert brand (from Horizon) on board glow driver is designed for multicylinder engines and features an adjusable output that is turned on and off by connection to a receiver channel (controled by the TX). The Sopwith needs a little weight in the nose so I can add a 700 mah NiMh battery to power it and try that to.

As to pictures I will take a couple this weekend (during daylight hours!) and get them posted for you all. This is a fun little project for sure.

Thanks for the help,
Jimnie

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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Maybe the bung in your fuel tank, or the fuel line inside of the fuselage, is leaking?


Ed Cregger

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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Personally, to power the plugs plus the distribution circuitry, I would look for something more than 3 AHrs and possibly even 3 AHrs. When I was testing glow plugs some years ago at 1.5 VDC (their rating), IIRC, each plug took between 1.3 and 1.6 amps each.

NiMH batteries are not designed for very low impedance/high current drain operation. Nicads might be a better choice in this instance.


Ed Cregger

RVM

Ok, I finally had time to put my .82 back on a bench. I gunked my IB regulator up with tons of blue Locktite to seal it.

A coarse BruLine filter on the velocity stack caused a loss of about 300 RPM. I won't be using it.
When I took it off it pulled the velocity stack right off, so all of the following numbers are sans velocity stack. I need to JB Weld it back in I guess.

18ish% nitro, 15% oil (3% castor, 12% synth)
70F or so
About 1.5 - 2.0 gallons through the engine.
OS F plug
Non-regulated : APC 14x6 - 9660 highest peak RPM, 9500-9600 average peak, richened it to 9350-9420 to run. Needle at about 1.5 turns out.
Regulated : APC 14x6 - same numbers, but with high speed needle 4 turns out.
Reliable idle @ 2200 with a very smooth transition to full power. Much, MUCH, MUCH harder to set the low speed needle with the regulator hooked up. High speed is a lot more difficult as well. I was under the impression adding the regulator would not change the needle settings, but it did, and significantly so.

Pro Zinger 15x4 : about 8600 RPM peak. This does not make any sense. The .82 is spinning an APC 15x4w at about 9000 peak, and I know that the APC loads the engine a lot more than the Zinger. The engine still seems down on power with the APC 15x4w, and especially so with the Pro Zinger 15x4. I talked to a few friends running less nitro than I am and a few thousand feet more elevation and they're getting around 9200-9400 peak on their .82 with the APC 15x4w, and about 9600-9800 with the Pro Zinger 15x4.

For some reason I could not get the needles set using any other prop. Frankly, I had a very difficult time getting them set for any prop but the 14x6, especially when the engine was regulated. I spent 3 hours working with it today, and my time is very limited so I think I'm going to just mount the engine back onto the plane and tune it up. I did adjust the valves to the clearance of the supplied guage, and am going to try adjusting them to a cigarette wrapper when I get a bit more time. This supposedly will increase power a fair bit at a cost of worse fuel economy due to more blowback of fuel out the carb.

The numbers on the 14x6 seem good and strong to me, but I am still at a loss as to why I cannot A: get it tuned very well with any other prop and B: why it is not pulling like other .82s on the lower pitch props. I did not have these tuning issues before, even when the regulator was leaking a ton of air into the fuel line. The regulator isn't leaking now, and the engine is harder to tune and the props I use are still not turning up where they should be.

I'll play with it more once I get it mounted again and see if I can't accomplish anything. I've got a case of Omega 25% that might make a difference.

Anyone have any thoughts here?

Bill:
On the phone you mentioned putting a nipple onto the breather hole on the regulator and plumbing it to the muffler line before it got to the check valve. The intent of this was to make the high speed needle more sensitive, yes? I cannot solder worth a damn, but I am strongly considering JB Welding a nipple to it and trying that.

plopes

Hi, does anybody know if a Saito 90R will pull a H9 Camel ok???

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The Saito 90R has the equivalent power of four stroke 65-70 engines providing it's running on all three sylinders.