bldrums

I was thinking about Bill R today and of course we miss him. And I started to wonder about his huge collection of RC engines , etc. He had lots of unusual pieces and tons of Saito. Then I pictured a museum holding his extensive collection....... wouldnt you love to spend a few hours there ....... way cool....thats all. Later ya'll !

RIP friend,
Bill: once refered toby BR as "Rummy".. hehe

w8ye

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W.R. lost nearly all his model collection to a fire at his residence shortly before his death. Only one twin engined plane and its Saito 82's were saved because the plane was at Bobby Franks' house at the time of the fire. This plane was given to W.R.'s son after the funeral.

SigMan

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hey Dave, was that BR with his motorcycle ? man, nothing like the mental picture i had painted...i miss him alot also. just setting down after work and reading thru his posts made my day. there was something definitly about that guy, i guess you could just feel the love of the hobby thru him.

bldrums

w8ye

Thanks

bl

blw

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I also have a version of Bill's Saito Overhaul notes. They run 6 pages.

thrashin

Would you care to share?

Adam.

blw

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I'll send these to anyone who wants them. Give me an email address via email or PM. I sent one out last night to someone who requested it. It is in Word format, but I can send a generic version.

RC Specialties

Hobbsy,

I like the adapter arrangement on page 382. I had not thought of combining the two. It makes it much more versatile. Here are a couple of picks of the new TurboHeader for the Saito 1.25 I promised. It has a new design (look) but same performance.

Jim

rustypep

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Well Jim my new Saito 100 and Turboheader are keepers [sm=thumbs_up.gif]. I finished running the first gallon through as I took these numbers today. All the comments about it being a shaker are just not accurate. Also, first time using my new PSP test stand mounted to my trusty concrete block. I basically saw no difference in adding both the 90 degree adapter and exhaust extension to the Turboheader. It actually held 9,750 better with the exhaust extension with an ocassional dip to 9720. Very nice The boost from this muffler is almost (I said almost) as good as running another 5% of nitro. It would be interesting to see what number it could do running 30% nitro with the Turboheader.

84 Degrees
56% Relative humidity
Approximately 425 FT ASL
Omega 15% 4S fuel with nothing added
All figures on APC 14x8
I finished up the first gallon as I took the last set of numbers including the idle.

9,510 with stock muffler
9,750 with TurboHeader Muffler (briefly touched 9,780) (pretty much as expected)
9,720-50 with Saito 90 degree header and Turboheader Muffler
9,750 with Saito 90 degree header, Turboheader muffler, and unmodified Hobbico exhaust extension (not what I was expecting)

As for the idle, well I had a real nice idle that I played around with to see how low it would go while staying reliable. I didn't play with the idle until the end with the Turboheader muffler on it. It was reliable down to 1,560 (with the engine warmed up). I got that same idle figure on two different runs so I should have no trouble holding an idle of 1,800 or so. I ran it up to full throttle from there as well without any hesitation The stock low speed needle setting was waaaaayyy too rich but that wasn't a surprise and she smoothed out a lot after it was set correctly. The new PSP test stand is a winner too. The old one just collected some exhaust so time to retire it. I don't see me using it again.

The Turboheader muffler also has a nice, throaty sound to it and adding the extension just changed the note a little more. I am happy [sm=thumbs_up.gif] This engine and muffler are going into a H9 P-40. I also want to thank everyone who contributes to this thread, those still with us and those that are no longer here. It has been a big help to me.

rustypep

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Here is my setup for the Saito 82 with another Turboheader made for the 82, Saito 90 degree header, and exhaust extension going into my new GP Reactor.

freeonthree

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Have you flown it yet ? I have yet been able to keep an exhaust extension on a 4 stroke. They get hot and slide off in flight every time. I've tried wire ties (2), and they still come off somehow.

rustypep

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Not yet but I will say the raised ring on this muffler tip is deeper than I have seen on any other muffler. If you look close in the photo, I only had only tie wrap on it for the test and I tightened it by hand. I won't guarantee it won't come off but it is less likely IMHO with this muffler. I usually use two cable ties too and there is room to use two above the ring. The other trick I use is to hold the end of the cable tie with some pliers for leverage and use a wide blade flat screw driver to push the connector down to get those last two clicks from the connector and that usually keeps me out of trouble. Good luck!

rustypep

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Maybe this picture will help you see how thick the ring is compared to the stock muffler for the 82. You also have to use an extension that is the next size larger which is less restrictive. I think that contributes to why adding the extension didn't degrade the numbers and that is good.

freeonthree

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That just might work. All I know is that the exhaust of a 4 stroke will melt solder. I found this out when I slodered a pressure nipple onto a muffler once. Had to braze it finally. Those little suckers get hot !

rustypep

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Believe me I know. Notice how close the HS needle is to the muffler. It got hot down there but I only got one knuckle too close. The breather also threw out the ocassional bit of hot oil. You live and learn. Next time I will install an extension for the HS too. That is what I will do in the final install in the Reactor and P-40.

RPM1

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OK, I need some help. My 100 is of giving me fits. I have the HS needle set to run about 300 rpm below peak, spinning a 14-7 three blade master airscrew with a 3 1/2" tru-turn spinner, about 8400. However when it’s in the air it looks very rich with a thick smoke trail and it just doesn’t sound clean. More like it's chugging along. The low speed needle looks like it's set very rich, with raw fuel blowing out the muffler at idle (Abt. 1800). If I lean it out it will not transition and it will not hold an idle for very long before it dies. I have tried to work both of them in both directions but then it just doesn’t seem to run at all. It is mounted inverted, but I have not had this give me any problems with any of my other Saito's.

I know this is brief but if somebody could toss a suggestion or two I would appreciate it.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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A three bladed 14x7 sounds a bit ambitious for that size engine. I'm not saying that it is too large, but certainly it is bordering on being too large.

How much running time do you have on the engine? What kind of fuel? Glow plug?

Since our engines are not supposed to burn their oil during combustion, roughly 1/5th of the fuel will be expelled as unburned oil. It is impossible to run one of these engines without having visible smoke, unless one's vision is in question.


Ed Cregger

jb86

My Feedback: (8)

what prop is a good choice for the saito .82? the .72 runs about 10,300 w/apc 13x6 (i expect the 14x4w is about the same, it is the same rpm for both on my os 70 surpass). i will put the .82 on my pacific aero edge 540 (about 6.3 lbs). the apc 14x6 was barely 9k. i expect a 13x7 or 14x5N.
i found just a light brown corrosion on the visible surfaces of the bearings on a couple engines. there is no bearing noise, should i be concerned? or just replace them? i have now gone to adding castor and using ATF for aro.
jon

blw

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That is about what I get on my .72 and an APC 13x6, which is a great combination on a CA Models Widebody 40 sized pattern plane. High RPMs aren't everything on 4 strokes when it comes to power. In the case of the .82, a 14 something may be better than a 13" prop for that type of plane.

If you haven't been using castor and it looks like rust, I would pull the bearings and change them. Some people would run them until they either felt grind or heard noise, but not me.

rustypep

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Ed,

What three blade do you recommend for a Saito 100. I picked up a MA 13x8 but also saw where a few people posted about using the MA & Graupner 14x7 3 bladed props. I am planning to put a three bladed prop with the 100 in my P-40 after I do the maiden and get her trimmed out on the two blade but am curious what you and anyone else might be using. I am running 15% nitro and I think a few of those people were using 20% and above. I also wonder how much nitro RPM1 is running and how much fuel has been put through the engine.

Rusty

swixtt

RPM, you basically have described mine! also a 100, inverted,etc. but spinning a 15x6 regular apc prop. i'm watching to see if any suggestions are posted too. i've got a gallon through mine so far, stock plug, 15% 4 stroke 18% fuel

RC Specialties

Rusty,

I ran a 14x7 3 blade MA on my 100 for awhile. It turned the prop about 9300 RPM. See attached Corsair Pic. It flew pretty well but I changed to a 2 blade 14x8 APC and gain some speed. RPM1 has another issue working. The 1.00 will turn the prop more than 8400.

Jim

rlmcnii

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RPM 1,
Good luck

rcuser004

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Since it hasn't been mentioned, has anyone bothered to check the valves for proper adjustment? Assuming the valves are set to .003",
your issue, particularly with excess fuel consumption and poor transition, is still most likely due to wrong low end needle adjustment. I have four 1.00's, all inverted, running Powermaster 15% x 18% oil. I use either 14 x 8 or 13 x 10 props (WWII warbirds). On all engines, the main needle is out 2-1/2 to 3 turns. If the idle needle is screwed in too far, you would have to back out the main needle well over 5 turns and still not get it to run rich. This is a good indication of whether the idle adjustment is correct or not (at least this is what I have found having run Saito engines for years in sizes from .80 to 1.80).

Play with your low end (after adjusting the valves...by the way, be careful adjusting them at T.D.C. as there are two T.D.C. in the four cycles of the engine and only one of them is OK to adjust the valves). Once you set the low end so that the top end runs good with 2-1/2
to 3 turns out on the main needle, you are pretty close.

Good Luck...

RPM1

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Ed, Thanks for the reply. I know that the 14-7 is borderline for the 100 but When I threw it on the front of my P-40 it had to stay. As far as the smoke goes, it is like it's running very rich, not the regular trail you would expect out of the motor when it's set right. The engine is fairly new maybe an hour or so on a stand with about four flites. The plug is the Saito factory pulg. The fuel is omega.

I did jack with it a little last night and I got the high side slightly better but now it still looks like it's loading up in the midrange. All this may be a function of it being over-propped. I might throw a 14-7 2 blade on there today and check the valves.