Welcome to Club SAITO !
05-05-2008, 08:33 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: TXRCPilot
Older Saito 80 has a strange problem. I could use any advise.
I have a Saito 80 mounted inverted in my World Models Clip Wing Cub. It starts easily, run fine up to half throttle, but not beyond that. I've had the cowl off - with no difference. I do not think it's a over heating problem. I've had a couple of Saito guys, try to tune the engine all to no avail. They are puzzeled too. I'm at about 2 1/2 - 3 turns on the high speed, and about 2 1/4 on the low spped. Transistion is good as long as you I don't advance past 1/2 throttle. It then start to run REAL rough and wants to quit. It WILL then Quit - even with a glow starter attached! If I run the throttle back to idle or so, it will start to run again. We move the back pressure tap closer to the exhause (thinking that might help) as I have an extended pipe on it, rather than the standard muffer. I've had it rebuilt/adjusted about a year ago from an Authorized Service center here in Texas.
Any clue as to why it will not run past half throttle?? Oh, I've tried different fuels to eliminate that as an issue. I generally run Omeaga 4 stroke fuel, but a friend loaned me some YS 20/20 to see if that would help. No difference. Plug is the OS type F, for 4 strokes.....
Thanks David W.
Older Saito 80 has a strange problem. I could use any advise.
I have a Saito 80 mounted inverted in my World Models Clip Wing Cub. It starts easily, run fine up to half throttle, but not beyond that. I've had the cowl off - with no difference. I do not think it's a over heating problem. I've had a couple of Saito guys, try to tune the engine all to no avail. They are puzzeled too. I'm at about 2 1/2 - 3 turns on the high speed, and about 2 1/4 on the low spped. Transistion is good as long as you I don't advance past 1/2 throttle. It then start to run REAL rough and wants to quit. It WILL then Quit - even with a glow starter attached! If I run the throttle back to idle or so, it will start to run again. We move the back pressure tap closer to the exhause (thinking that might help) as I have an extended pipe on it, rather than the standard muffer. I've had it rebuilt/adjusted about a year ago from an Authorized Service center here in Texas.
Any clue as to why it will not run past half throttle?? Oh, I've tried different fuels to eliminate that as an issue. I generally run Omeaga 4 stroke fuel, but a friend loaned me some YS 20/20 to see if that would help. No difference. Plug is the OS type F, for 4 strokes.....
Thanks David W.
One of two things come to mind.
The low speed needle is screwed in too far and does not permit enough fuel to flow for the engine to run. The low speed needle in a Saito carburetor controls the flow of fuel/air until well above half throttle, then the high speed section takes over.
Check to ensure that your vent line to the fuel tank is not kinked or restricted in some way. Not enough air to replace the fuel being burned can cause similar symptoms.
If the vent line in the fuel tank is too close to the top of the tank, it can cause problems. Sometimes they suck up against the top of the tank and restrict airflow into the tank.
If the low speed needle in the carb is screwed in too far, there is not enough fuel flow for the high speed circuit, regardless of the high speed setting.
Ed Creger
05-05-2008, 09:29 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I had this same problem above half throttle on a 100. It was the brass tube on the feual tank cut a small hole in the carb feed line and the motor was starved for fuel after a certain point!!!!
05-06-2008, 06:51 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I have a question for anybody that will help.
How much thrust does a Saito .56 have?
It is the newer one. I have a Edge 540 with a all up weight
of 5.5 lbs. What do I need for a prop to make this engine
hover this plane? Or is it to small. Any advise would be great.
Thanks Fred
P.S If any body knows please let me know.
Thanks again
How much thrust does a Saito .56 have?
It is the newer one. I have a Edge 540 with a all up weight
of 5.5 lbs. What do I need for a prop to make this engine
hover this plane? Or is it to small. Any advise would be great.
Thanks Fred
P.S If any body knows please let me know.
Thanks again
05-06-2008, 03:17 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I run a 14x4w on my .82a does a great job 3din , I posted a video a page back that plane is flying with an .82a with a MAS 14x6.
My Extra is 5lbs 6oz dry (300cc) and vertical is unlimited just a hair above half throttle.
Awsome little powerplant!
Mike.
My Extra is 5lbs 6oz dry (300cc) and vertical is unlimited just a hair above half throttle.
Awsome little powerplant!
Mike.
05-06-2008, 07:48 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I want to share something that happened to me last Sunday:
I have a Venus 40 plane which had a Saito 72 (I had some death sticks) I changed the engine and bolted my Saito 82 and flew it last Sunday. I had three death sticks on my three flights.
Some fellows came to me to see what was happening some of them telling what I should do to avoid the engine from stopping.
After some research the result is that the tank is a bit higher than the center of the carburetor, no problem and I will fix it soon.
But what resulted in a very interesting comment is what I want to share.
A very close friend of mine (Good experienced pilot, builder and skilled with the engines) came to me and, not knowing about the tank issue told me that the engine was overheating and that was the cause of the death sticks (Yes the engine was overheating), then told me that I could manage set the valves in different manner to avoid the overheating situation.
Here is where I need you opinion.
My friend said that I should open the gap of the intake by two points (or half more the stock) in example:
Gap recommended by the manufacturer is .004 inches
My friend suggests .006 inches
Also told me, that the exhaust valve should be twice the recommended gap. Example:
Gap recommended by the manufacturer is .004 inches
My friend suggests .008 inches.
The effect of opening the valves is letting in more fuel and assures that all exhaust is off the engine before the new stroke which would lead to a cooler operating engine.
So what do you all guys think about this?
I have a Venus 40 plane which had a Saito 72 (I had some death sticks) I changed the engine and bolted my Saito 82 and flew it last Sunday. I had three death sticks on my three flights.
Some fellows came to me to see what was happening some of them telling what I should do to avoid the engine from stopping.
After some research the result is that the tank is a bit higher than the center of the carburetor, no problem and I will fix it soon.
But what resulted in a very interesting comment is what I want to share.
A very close friend of mine (Good experienced pilot, builder and skilled with the engines) came to me and, not knowing about the tank issue told me that the engine was overheating and that was the cause of the death sticks (Yes the engine was overheating), then told me that I could manage set the valves in different manner to avoid the overheating situation.
Here is where I need you opinion.
My friend said that I should open the gap of the intake by two points (or half more the stock) in example:
Gap recommended by the manufacturer is .004 inches
My friend suggests .006 inches
Also told me, that the exhaust valve should be twice the recommended gap. Example:
Gap recommended by the manufacturer is .004 inches
My friend suggests .008 inches.
The effect of opening the valves is letting in more fuel and assures that all exhaust is off the engine before the new stroke which would lead to a cooler operating engine.
So what do you all guys think about this?
05-06-2008, 08:04 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: alfredbmor
I want to share something that happened to me last Sunday:
I have a Venus 40 plane which had a Saito 72 (I had some death sticks) I changed the engine and bolted my Saito 82 and flew it last Sunday. I had three death sticks on my three flights.
Some fellows came to me to see what was happening some of them telling what I should do to avoid the engine from stopping.
After some research the result is that the tank is a bit higher than the center of the carburetor, no problem and I will fix it soon.
But what resulted in a very interesting comment is what I want to share.
A very close friend of mine (Good experienced pilot, builder and skilled with the engines) came to me and, not knowing about the tank issue told me that the engine was overheating and that was the cause of the death sticks (Yes the engine was overheating), then told me that I could manage set the valves in different manner to avoid the overheating situation.
Here is where I need you opinion.
My friend said that I should open the gap of the intake by two points (or half more the stock) in example:
Gap recommended by the manufacturer is .004 inches
My friend suggests .006 inches
Also told me, that the exhaust valve should be twice the recommended gap. Example:
Gap recommended by the manufacturer is .004 inches
My friend suggests .008 inches.
The effect of opening the valves is letting in more fuel and assures that all exhaust is off the engine before the new stroke which would lead to a cooler operating engine.
So what do you all guys think about this?
I want to share something that happened to me last Sunday:
I have a Venus 40 plane which had a Saito 72 (I had some death sticks) I changed the engine and bolted my Saito 82 and flew it last Sunday. I had three death sticks on my three flights.
Some fellows came to me to see what was happening some of them telling what I should do to avoid the engine from stopping.
After some research the result is that the tank is a bit higher than the center of the carburetor, no problem and I will fix it soon.
But what resulted in a very interesting comment is what I want to share.
A very close friend of mine (Good experienced pilot, builder and skilled with the engines) came to me and, not knowing about the tank issue told me that the engine was overheating and that was the cause of the death sticks (Yes the engine was overheating), then told me that I could manage set the valves in different manner to avoid the overheating situation.
Here is where I need you opinion.
My friend said that I should open the gap of the intake by two points (or half more the stock) in example:
Gap recommended by the manufacturer is .004 inches
My friend suggests .006 inches
Also told me, that the exhaust valve should be twice the recommended gap. Example:
Gap recommended by the manufacturer is .004 inches
My friend suggests .008 inches.
The effect of opening the valves is letting in more fuel and assures that all exhaust is off the engine before the new stroke which would lead to a cooler operating engine.
So what do you all guys think about this?
I think that a larger gap results in opening the valves LESS than a smaller gap. I don't think this is a good idea at all!
05-06-2008, 08:37 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I just bought a new rear bearing for my Saito 80. Need advice on the best way to install the bearing in the case. Also, I've noticed that the old bearing is unshielded, whereas the new bearing is shielded on both sides. Is this just a running design change or are there two different bearings depending on engine series?
By the way, Horizon was friendly, helpful, and very fast on delivery.
Thanks in advance,
Dick Fischer
By the way, Horizon was friendly, helpful, and very fast on delivery.
Thanks in advance,
Dick Fischer
05-06-2008, 08:46 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Usually if the engine is running pretty good the valve lash would not be an issue. If you are worried about the valves , run the engine , get it good and hot , then remove the exhaust cover and re-check the valve lash. If there is still a little there when the engine is hot , it is fine. Heat is usually generated by running lean , back to the fuel issue. I would check the tank , make sure the lines do not have any pin holes. I had one plane that had a pin hole inside the tank , replaced the fuel line , it was fine.
Andy
Andy
05-06-2008, 09:00 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
The valve lash always gets larger as the engine gets warmer.
I think Bill Robinson covered this well in his Saito Notes. See [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5843149]THIS POST.[/link]
I think Bill Robinson covered this well in his Saito Notes. See [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5843149]THIS POST.[/link]
05-06-2008, 09:19 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I would make sure of that , for sure on larger engines , cars , motorcycles , as the parts get hot they expand making the valves and the push rods longer. I did read his notes , but am going to have to run one and double check this for myself.
Andy
Andy
05-06-2008, 09:29 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: AJsToyz
I would make sure of that , for sure on larger engines , cars , motorcycles , as the parts get hot they expand making the valves and the push rods longer. I did read his notes , but am going to have to run one and double check this for myself.
Andy
I would make sure of that , for sure on larger engines , cars , motorcycles , as the parts get hot they expand making the valves and the push rods longer. I did read his notes , but am going to have to run one and double check this for myself.
Andy
Ok , strike my other comment.
05-07-2008, 07:33 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Al, your friend is all wet, running a larger gap will make the valves open less and increase valve train wear and noise. Running them loose will pound a dent on the leading side of the cams. I have run several Saitos at .002 inch and they run fine but no increase inperformance. My 1.25 though loses 200 rpm when set at .002, it's the only one that has that effect. When the 1.25 has the lash set at .002 inch the exhaust has a harsh note to it.
05-07-2008, 10:57 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
My fault.
My friend was referring to open the valves, one half more for the intake and one complete more value for the exhaust. I misunderstood the term (Open the valves timing) and immediately thought on opening the gap. Now that I understand the mechanics it makes sense what my friend said, but I'd like to know your opinions.
My friend was referring to open the valves, one half more for the intake and one complete more value for the exhaust. I misunderstood the term (Open the valves timing) and immediately thought on opening the gap. Now that I understand the mechanics it makes sense what my friend said, but I'd like to know your opinions.
05-07-2008, 03:22 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Just my opinion, but,you shouldnt have to worry about all that valve trickery. Something else is going on you need to focus on, to lean maybe? Im guilty of that one myself,I always tried to tune it so I didnt see much smoke,lowest idle possible (like was posted here before) This caused me too run too lean and deadstick tuckin my gear under.
If you dont have a smooth transition please dont fly it [
] I had to learn the hard way, a couple times.
I tune em so I have a nice powerful smooth transition now. The idle will come when the engine breaks in better.
If you dont have a smooth transition please dont fly it [
] I had to learn the hard way, a couple times. I tune em so I have a nice powerful smooth transition now. The idle will come when the engine breaks in better.
05-07-2008, 03:41 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Thanks for your opinion Michael, needle valves are OK, engine runs nice and smooth no problema with it.
The point where I want to get is:
Opening valves a bit more than the recommended value could lead to a cooler operating engine?
Does it consumes more fuel, because of the amount of time that the intake valve remains open?
Bill did it before but did not mention a cooler effect, that is why I wanted to discuss the issue here (In fact he mentioned a hotter cam).
Thanks guys.
Alfredo.
The point where I want to get is:
Opening valves a bit more than the recommended value could lead to a cooler operating engine?
Does it consumes more fuel, because of the amount of time that the intake valve remains open?
Bill did it before but did not mention a cooler effect, that is why I wanted to discuss the issue here (In fact he mentioned a hotter cam).
Thanks guys.
Alfredo.
05-07-2008, 04:04 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Most of the posts I have read in this forum suggest tuning one's Saito to the leanest LS needle setting that will give a smooth, reliable, and REPEATABLE transition from idle to full-throttle. If the transition is not smooth, reliable, and REPEATABLE something is amiss.
Idle speed is controlled by the amount of air entering the engine, not by the LS needle. The the LS and HS needles control fuel flow, not air flow.
Saitos do seem to be able to be set up for lower idle speeds as they break in. Perhaps this is true for many other engines also.
Idle speed is controlled by the amount of air entering the engine, not by the LS needle. The the LS and HS needles control fuel flow, not air flow.
Saitos do seem to be able to be set up for lower idle speeds as they break in. Perhaps this is true for many other engines also.
05-07-2008, 09:29 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Are you getting enough airflow to it?
Does it make a not so nice sizzle sound after the deadsticks?
I accidentally had my valves a bit tight once on my 82 seemed to run like poop , so much so that I made sure I re adjusted them after I got home . Grabbed the .002 very tightly.
rlmcnii,
yeah my fault for taking the plane up like that for sure , wont happen again I tell ya.
Does it make a not so nice sizzle sound after the deadsticks?
I accidentally had my valves a bit tight once on my 82 seemed to run like poop , so much so that I made sure I re adjusted them after I got home . Grabbed the .002 very tightly.
rlmcnii,
yeah my fault for taking the plane up like that for sure , wont happen again I tell ya.
05-08-2008, 12:42 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Here's to Horizon for fixing my 4 year old Saito 150 thats been mounted on a Stearman for a year. It has about 75 flights with no problems until 2 weeks ago. I had just set the top end 300 - 400 rpm rich of peak when a loud bang came from the engine and than a free spinning prop came slowly to a stop. This is not good. I turned the prop very slowly and it had no compression.I removed it that night and found a hole in the case. I sent it in to Horizon on the 28th and it showed up today. I was very surprised. I opened the box and low and behold it was fixed. The work order said the crank pin failed and the rod punched a hole in the case. They really didn't know why this happened. They replaced a bearing,rod,case,timing gear and crank. They also found a LOT of rust. I've run powermaster y/s saito 20/20 fuel in it most of it's life. I put after run oil in the vent after almost ever day of flying.And when I know it's not going to fly for a extended period of time I always put oil in the glow plug hole and the case vent line. I really don't know what else to do but use some fuel that has caster oil in it and oil it more. Saito has always stood behind there engines for me.
05-08-2008, 10:54 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
If a Saito makes music to your ears...
If you're a bona fide Saito gearhead...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzSygqHvLPY
If you're a bona fide Saito gearhead...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzSygqHvLPY
05-09-2008, 07:42 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Sorry TP, I didn't mean to offend, but I'd be nervous about screwing and unscrewing the glow plug all those times plus if the AfterRun oil has any silicon in it, it will glaze the the plug rendering it useless.