w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I was about too say that.

The barrel itself is steel but Saito must have changed the screw.

Makes me want to make my own from a hardened bolt if I ever have any trouble

There's been talk of two different screws here. One guy mentioned his barrel retaining screw but he was also talking about the two phillips head screws that hold the carb to the back plate

stallwart

I just assumed the barrels were aluminum, but feel much better knowing they are steel.

One thing I noticed is the barrel screws can be turned by hand, despite the retaining spring. I tightened two each between a quarter and half a turn without a screwdriver.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

If I was going to make one I would eliminate the spring and make the screw only long enough to retain the barrel with full travel when tightened completely

Michaelh

My Feedback: (4)

I dont know, seems this issue all of a sudden pop'd up everywhere as its become a hot topic. I have a good bit of side/side play in all 4 of my Saito's ,never noticed it affecting the tuning that much though. I actually asked about how to tune the low end with this play and got a good response so I thought it was a normal thing.

I only did the red silicone on one .82 as of yet. The other 2 are purring along great. No fuel noticed on the Tube. The Red silicone has held up very nice BTW.
Epoxy is thinned by alcohol BTW ,all of which you are dumping down your tube Just a thought.

Mike

salerno

i did make my last screw out of a hardened machine screw that i grinded down then made just long enough that i can tighten the screw all the way and it doesn't restrict barrel movement. it is still wearing though, just a little slower than the standard screw.

I wonder if i cut the spring down slightly so it does'nt push so hard if it will help the situration? i notice the wear on screw is only on the side with pressure on it from spring. i know at wide open throttle spring wont do as much, but it is only at idle that it becomes so criticle.

When you tune your engine, most of us lean LS untill it starts to sag on quick throttle then back it off, we all know how sensitive the needle is at this point. now imagine screw wears half a mm, what this does to my tuning!

Giln

Hi all,
I have my first Saito - 82a in a Funtana 50.
I've been in the hobby for a year now and bought this to learn 3D setup and as a 3D trainer.

With a 15/4 APC on 30% heli fuel - this is a stump puller.
A real tractor - same throttle, same speed, level or straight up (from half throttle on).
I'm (almost) sure I could plow a field.
Turns this plane into a very well behaved 3D monster.

Love this engine! and I haven't noticed any issues.
Uses a little fuel (at 30% and a little rich) but it is so reliable and predictable that I'm reluctant to try leaning out low or high any more.
Great engine for 40 - 50 size 3D planes.

I fly 4-5 flights an outing and I do have a little oil/residue on the bottom of the carb at the end.
I use a towell to wipe off, add a little after run and put it away.
Think I will have to remove the cowl again and check on this screw issue (haven't done that in months).
About the only maintenance I have is occassionally to iron the covering and to change the glow plug (type F).

Is someone still keeping count and giving out membership numbers?
Do I qualify?

Regards
Gil

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Yes BLW keeps up with that. He'll be along within a couple days and assign you a number

Rudolph Hart

Hi dave and thank you muchly for the pix and comments.I was leaning more towards saying that at wide open throttle it backs off a couple of hundred revs after five seconds or so,it's very audible.

beaver180

My Feedback: (10)

Gedday there Hobbsy, w8ye and you other Saito guru's

My 180 is spinning really great and using way less fuel in the Citabria now... I do though have a small query ( that's q u e r y Old Fart, not what you're thinking! ) should my engine smoke this much?? Fuel used is 10% Nitro, 20% Coolpower (blue) and 70% Methanol... see pictures

Thank in advance,
Paul

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

OF, every engine I own will peak then slow a little in a few seconds, this is most noticeable at full throttle. Can't splain it.

Beav, that smoke looks pretty cool and I think it is a good sign, if you engine is not burning excess fuel it sounds like you've got it right. It shows you're running rich enough to not burn the synthetic lube.

sodbuster 1

Was thinking of trying the same thing.
The barrel is a a much harder steel than the screw(screw might not even be hardened, might just be coated black) but you have to be very careful not to end up using a screw that is hardened more than the barrel or you will end up wearing out the slot in the barrel.
Much more costly than the screw.

Any time you have steel to steel in a moving part and they act as a bearing surface the softer of the two will wear.I think in this case the screw is a MUCH softer material than the barrel.
A good test would be to scratch the end of the barrel with a file and do the same with the screw.

Most machine manufacturers do not manufacture their own hardware like screws and washers. They're bought from the outside where the manufacturer really doesn't have as much control of the quality of the product.


I know I wiped mine out prematurely because of side pressure on the throttle arm.
Hobbsy isn't seeing the issue in his engines because he's come up with a linkage setup that puts no side pressure on the throttle arm. The only pressure in his setup is the barrel spring which is very light. If he had any wear more than likely it would only be on one side of the screw.

Think if you fly 3D that only helps wear the screw out sooner because of the constant throttle changes.

As far as that contibuting to not being able to set a reliable idle........
how could you possibly set a reliable low end if the barrel doesn't return to the same spot each time you bring it back to where you set the neddle settings?

You can't.

If you want to test that just try this.......

Get your engine running, set it to an idle and just touch the side of the throttle lever.
Listen to the results.......


But here's a scary thought for you all that hit me the other night.



Where did the filings from the worn out screw go???[X(][X(][X(]

mike early

Does anyone still use engines with the choke installed? Do you still use the choke? Does it help?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Lets put it this way. The new engines don't have chokes

They are just not needed

UltimateFlyer120

My Feedback: (5)

I've updated my Saito collection. I'm the proud owner of a Saito 300. I'm looking for a good prop to start with. I have the motor on a GreatPlanes Ultimatebiplane. I want low end torque!

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Benchmark Prop:18x10 @ 8,000; 20x10 @ 7,000
Prop Range:18x10 - 21x10
RPM Range:1,800 to 8,000
Fuel:10%-30% nitro - synthetic

This for the single carb version, same props but 8,400 rpm for the dual carb version.

Engine (Only) Weight:63.5 oz
Crankshaft Threads:M10 x 1.25
Benchmark Prop:18x10 @ 8,000
Prop Range:18x10 - 20x10
RPM Range:1,600 - 8,400
Fuel:10% - 30% Nitro - Synthetic

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Giln- you are #609. Anyone else?

Salerno- you may find a permanent fix if you were to take out your backplate and carb screws, and clean out the threads to bare metal with something like alcohol. Get it good and clean. Then, mix up some 30 minute epoxy cut about 25% with alcohol. Find a small toothpick, and CA a little cotton to it and make a Q tip out of it. Swab a little epoxy down into the threads and let dry for at least a day. Don't douse the threads. Reassemble your parts.

The epoxy will not be as permanent as you would think like with wood. But, it will booger up when you thread the screws back in and grip better than thread lockers. If you have a slight misfit from cheaply turned parts, it will provide a good grip along all of the mating surfaces. This is why it is excellent in places subject to vibrations like t-nuts on firewalls. You can always back the screws out when you need to better than with thread lockers, and use over again without more epoxy.

sodbuster 1

BLW,
I'd be honored to join....

great forum with some VERY knowledgeable and experienced hobbyists freely sharing

UltimateFlyer120

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks Hobbsy: Same info as the Horizon site. My 300 has one carb and the crank threads are 8x 1.25. I reamed out the 20x8 APC to 10mm so it fit over the "hump" on the crank! Am I looking at 4 ozs per minute? My weight is somewhere around 61 ozs
I went back to my first post on the Club Saito to update (add) all the new motors I have. I could not edit that post? why?

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Set up correctly you should be looking at 3 oz/min. at full throttle. Most sites have a time limit on the EDIT feature.

elf232

Soooooooooooo whats the difference between say a OS fs-40 and a Saito -somethin- .40 cubit?

salerno

Hey i was thinking the same thing! those microscopic peices of metal have to get washed through engine and what's the quickest way to kill a motor? Hmmm...

I know when i press on the throttle arm it leans up and quits if you have any play in the barrel. natural to have a little play but as it wears tuning gets richer and richer till she wont run anymore. bit of pain really. but at least it doesn't get leaner, then we would really be in trouble!

When i was racing rc cars, all the good engines had slide barrel carbs to eliminate this problem, and it never was a problem.
another good idea would be to put the idle screw on the other side of the carby so it's not on the throttle arm.

Was thinking of making a new screw out of teflon/nylon, simular to the pin retainers in the piston, maybe that would wear less.

Somthing else to think about... On our rc cars, the clutch gears were made out of steel or aluminium, while the gears they meshed with were plastic... guess what always and i mean always wore out first? that's right the steel gears would get worn by the plastic and we always had to go through 3 or 4 sets of metal gears before the plastic ones would wear out! how does that figure? BTW everybody i ever raced with had this problem! not just me!

Rudolph Hart

Thanks for the peace of mind dave

Nice pix beaver.

rlmcnii

My Feedback: (3)

UF120,

I have a single-carb 3.00 that I have run only on the test stand. It would turn a Bambula 20x8 at 8200 when leaned to peak. I have not yet flown it. The airplane upon which it will be mounted is a 1/3 scale Spacewalker. The airplane is undergoing a long stay in the the paint shop[].

My plan is to fly the plane with a 21x8 Xoar. I have spoken with a fellow who has a lot of first-hand experience with these engines and he says they like to be loaded a bit...time will tell.

When I ran mine on the test stand I was surprised at how little fuel it burned, much less than anticipated. I don't know in what style you will fly your machine, but at less than full-throttle these engines seem to use very little fuel. You will also find that they are powerful. Mine was mounted on a test stand secured to a B&D Workmate. It would drag the Workmate around with no trouble unless I kept my foot on it. In use, full-throttle may be fairly rare.

In general a properly tuned Saito, including the 3.00 twin, is a very efficient engine. I am putting a 24 ounce tank in my airplane and it will probably be a huge over-kill, but the plane has a huge wing. You will probably be very happy with your engine when you get it set up.

Enjoy! These things are really neat. I don't think I'll be able to resist a 3.25 or 4.50 radial much longer.....then I'll just need another plane!!!

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Yep, Bob we keep splainin and you have too, that when the LS needle is right the engine will be right. With a lousy LS needle setting its possible to get better fuel economy at full throttle at overly rich part throttle. You obviously have yours spot on.

salerno

hey i was wondering if someone can tell me their fav prop on the .82 for 3d?
I am currently using a 14x6 APC sport, but am considering buying a 14x4 wide, 14x5 sport and a 15x4 wide.
Am i wasting money with any of these? would a 15x4 load up engine too much?
Maybe 14x4 is just not fast enough?
Any input would be greatly appreiciated!

I know it would have been discussed already but dont wanna read 400 plus pages! yep, lazy!

BTW, plane is extream flight extra 300. sure theirs may out there with this combo.