FNQFLYER

I learnt by bearing technology assemblying PT6, round P&W engines of various sizes, JT*D's etc as well as racing Chevy engines amongst others guess a bit of technology has rubbed of on me over the years.
Loose mufflers, though possiblly not applicable to Saito I have been finding people using metric bolts on imperial threads and vis versa, does do any good at all for what ever you are trying to secure

FNQFLYER

That should read JT8D's as in 737 and 727

brockettman

Hey guys,

I've got a 100 GK that is making a "clicking" or almost a "clunking" sound when the cam lobe rotates to lift the push rod. Both intake and exhaust are doing it.

I have the glow plug out, and when the engine is turned over, it's like the cam is "slapping" up against the tappet.

The engine has maybe 4 or 5 hours of time on it. Is this normal, or should I send it into Horizon for inspection?

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Ben

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Normal

Craig 01

Check and reset your valve clearance cold, Piston at top dead centre on compression stroke to .002" if the rocker to valve gap is wider than that.
The valve train clicking is a function of normal mechanics of the engine, although it will increase with loose valve clearances.

Craig 01

W8ye,you beat me to it,i was still replying,when you did.I am extremely slow typer

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The Magnum, Thunder Tiger, and OS four strokes click also

brockettman

Thanks gents,

I'll double check the valve clearance. It's good to know that a little click is OK...

Ben

JohnB96041

Need an answer please: I have always used PowerMaster Fuel, 15% Nitro, 18% oil (synthetic/castor). Now the LHS has only Cool Power, 25% Nitro, 18% synthetic oil. Should I add about 3-4 oz of castor oil to this fuel? If so, where can I get the Castor Oil? Also, I have read that Saito engines for sport flying don't need any more that 10% Nitro, so this 25% stuff just cost me more dollars per gallon. My closest LHS is about a 1 hour drive. Can I get the Castor Oil at a Walmart store? I have also read that Cool Power fuel is a cause and consern for Rust in the engine. Never, Never hat this problem with PowerMaster fuel.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Get the castor oil at Walmart and the Cool power will be OK

Engine has a little more power with 25% nitro and will not hurt the engine

The Saito will run fine on 10%

The only "bad" Cool Power is the regular blends with 17% synthetic oil

The Cool Power - "Four Stroke MV", "Multi Vis", 20-20, & 20% and "30% Heli" blends have good oil packages

Blend Nitro Lube Viscosity

New Cool Power MV Fuel Blends
10%-MV	10%	18%	Multi
15%-MV	15%	18%	Multi
4-Stroke MV	15%	18%	Multi
Heli-MV	15%	18%	Multi
Heli Blends
12.5%	12.5%	17%	Ultra-High
15% (standard Heli)	15%	17%	Ultra-High
15% MV	15%	18%	Multi
20%	20%	20%	Ultra-High
30%	30%	22%	Low
30%-LS	30%	20%	Ultra-High
Aero Blends
FAI	0%	17%	Ultra-High
5%	5%	17%	Ultra-High
10%-MV	10%	18%	Multi
10%	10%	17%	Ultra-High
15%	15%	17%	Ultra-High
15%-MV	15%	18%	Multi
25%	25%	17%	Ultra-High
30%	30%	17%	Ultra-High
40%	40%	17%	Ultra-High
4-Stroke Fuels
4-Stroke (standard)	15%	17%	Ultra-High
4-Stroke-MV	15%	18%	Multi
Pro-Pattern 20%	20%	20%	Ultra-High
Pro-Pattern 25%	25%	20%	Ultra-High
Pro-Pattern 30%	30%	20%	Ultra-High
Pro-Pattern 40%	40%	20%	Ultra-High

mike early

http://www.barnardmicrosystems.com/L4E_4_stroke.htm


The Saitos with the lower power-to-weight are the old-style that are no longer being manufactured.

FNQFLYER

I our latest Airborne (modelling magazine in Australia) there is an interesting article about engines and oils that about sums up what I have been saying about this subject.  I live in Cairns which is very humid (70% + most of the year) and have lived in Tropical countries for most of my adult life and it is taken as a given with any internal combustion engine that oil and lots of it is one of the best inhibitors of rust.

To that end at the end of each day my IC engines get a lean run (to remove any remaining fuel) and then if I intend to play with them in the next week or so I just put some after run down the carby and spin the engine ove either by hand or with the starter, this is down while the engine is still hot so the oil can penetrate.  If the engine isn't going to be used I fill it with light weight oil (30 grade) through the caby and breather close the carby and wrap it in an absorbant cloth (babies nappies are best followed by towels)

The oils I use are Cool Power, ATF (auto trans fluid  or MIL 5056 if you know what that is) or straight air compresser oil

I have had to recently change the bearings in my Saito 65 after 10 years of general and competition flying and am about to change my first set of YS 63 bearings after 6 years of competition flying, yes I do win and I am regularly placed in most of the comps I enter in at local, state and National level in case you were wondering.

What ever method you use getting rid of the residue methanol and nitro is the aim or at least nullnifying its effects
I use castor in my 2 strokes and castor or Castrol M  in my diesels.  Gave up using castor in 4 strokes years ago but then I don't lean my engines to the point of death but look to the smoke trail out of the exhaust as a means of following the flight path (most of the time) 

BTB a good trick with those gummed up (usually wioth castor left overs) engines is to treat them to some fuel used in them following a warm up in the sun or with a hair dryer, works well with my diesels even the Enya 4 stroke diesel

Ernie Misner

Doesn't some castor in the 4-strokes prolong the lifter and cam life?

Thanks,

Ernie

FNQFLYER

All that castor does in my opinion is gum up the works of any engine in which it has been left for any prolonged period without being used. True it was used as a lubricant and heat dispersant in the "old days" but there are better alternatives these days. I have just pulled down a YS 63 used exclusively for "vertical drag racing (Old Timer Duration) and there is no deteriation of the cam or lifters, and that has been the case with every YS 63 that I have seen, and might I add that the bearings don't appear to have much "rust" on them and that is after 5 years of running along the lines as previously indicated. BTB I use 45+% nitro in this engine with pink Coolpower at about 22% factory recommended, my after run is ATF (MIL 5056) or Cool Power pink oil (This is a low viscosity oil used in heli mix here and also for racing engines) Also use this fuel in the Saito when the mood takes.
Als this AM I had occasion to have to loosen up an OS36 4 stroke unit. Run on castor and left for a while and it was frozen solid, had been run on castor and synthetic to loosen it up filled it full of 4 stroke fuel and left it in the sun for an hour or 2 rocking the prop until it come free, then run it 11,000 on the tachometer then did a strip to clean out the innards.
For the record here in OZ Saito says one must not use Castor in the new engines and YS says likewise. This causes problems with CD's who don't read manufacturers specs and give us grief over supplied fuel mixes, but that is another story.

Ernie Misner

Isn't the fuel pump diaphram the castor culprit on YS's?

Thanks,

Ernie

Ernie Misner

Am I reading this correctly...... $21 for a Saito spark plug???? http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=SAIG20120

Thanks,

Ernie

Ladyflyer

My Feedback: (2)

Yes , it can. The synthetic lubes do not provide the same degree of boundary lubrication in the high pressure, sliding contact of cam and gear faces as used in four stroke engines.Here in the US , Saito now approves of castor lube content in fuels for Saito engines. While full castor lube may, in some cases in storage to "stick". When only a percentage of the lube is Castor the sticking becomes a non issue especially with the use of after-run oils.
We use castor in YS, Enya and Saito 4 strokes with excellent results. I have stored planes for years in the garage and started them right up without a hitch . The cam and lifter wear is nil and adjustments are less frequent since moving away fromm 100 percent synthetic fuels in our 4 stroke engines. as used in four stroke engines.
While in some areas corrosion is less of an issue, castor also adds a large margin of protection in areas where corrosion is a concern.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I constantly tick people off with my writing style. It surprises me because I do not have any ill will toward anyone. My comments are not intended to offend anyone in any way and yet, people are offended. I often find myself a little ticked by others comments, but I try to remind myself that even if they did intend to tick me off, they could have been having a really rotten day. As others have told me, don't be so thin skinned.


Ed Cregger

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

To me, pump diaphragms are consumables, like glow plugs. There's only a problem with them if you think that they should last forever. (smile)

George Asteris, a respected name in F3A pattern some years ago, used to run some FAI fuel (80% alcohol & 20% castor oil) through his engines after the last flight of the day. He would run the engine out dry, theorizing that the remaining castor oil would protect the internals. It did seem to work well. This was with the YS 1.20 four-stroke of that era (NC?).


Ed Cregger

blw

My Feedback: (3)

There still isn't a synthetic that can protect against high heat as well as castor.

I add a couple of oz to Omega 15%.

Tarasdad

Ernie, yep, $21 for the Saito spark plug. At that price the sucker better last a good, long time!

Ernie Misner

Thanks LadyFlyer. Good to hear from you. On my Saitos, should I worry about occasionally lubing the cam and lifter area manually or anything? My Saito 82 clicks pretty good when I turn it by hand. It does not have high hours on it or anything and I use after run oil.

Thanks,

Ernie

FNQFLYER

All very interesting re the YS diaphragm in the 53's and the series 1, 63 castor did cause a gumming of the diaphragm and the needle valve, the needle valve thing is easily fixed but the diaphragm was another matter, the Series 2 63 is a different beast but still doesn't like castor at all in my experience.
To make one point clear some of our O/T members (Sam 84, Vintagents) use castor (as a small amount addative) in the earlier Saitos such as the 50 and 65 but to my knowledge no one uses castor in the likes of the 56, 62 etc.  We all use high viscosity Cool power either the blue or pink (my choice) with no detrimental effect.  This is as recommended by Saito both in Japan and Australia. 
The last point to add is we don't lean the engine out until it screams for mercy but most prefer to see a faint trace of smoke out of the exhaust when the engine is under power.
This process has worked well for me and others here and it definitely has the engines lasting a long time   

FNQFLYER

USD 21 for a Saito spark plug in Aussie pesos that equates to about AUD$29 asking price from my model shop is AUD 45, you think you are hard done by. I am in Cairns and have a supply line problem (I am on the far end of the line) so spares (at least one) are the order of the day, I have an FG20 and an FG36 so that is 2 spare plugs and I am contemplating purchasing the FG30 and FG14, (got to have the set), oh well if one has to have the best one must pay the penalty I guess

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The plug in the FG-30 & 36 are the NGK CM-6 which is used in many gas model engines. It was created for the Honda generators and should be available at the auto parts store.