Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

Richard,
High octane gasoline provides less BTU's and less horsepower than low octane. High octane does run cooler and allow higher compression and prevents detonation. I have heard that people are running 87 octane gas motors.

Changing the topic a bit, IMHO the DLE-20 is going to put a serious dent in Saito 1.25 sales. It makes slightly more power and weighs 29 oz with all of the accessories (ignition system). It also mounts on rails so it can bolt right in. Everybody has 'em, Tower and even my LHS. It sips $2.60 a gallon gas and no oil on the fuselage. Cost...269 bucks! They are selling like hotcakes.

http://www.dle-engines.com/dleg0020.html

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAEPW&P=7

Phillip

spaceworm

I have a once die-hard Saito friend who has been converted to gas. He sold almost all of his Saitos and now flys a CRCC 26 and has bought Zenoah (20, 26 and 62) and DLE engines (20, 30 and 50) for all his once Saito powered planes. I am heading that way also with glow to gas conversions and trimmer conversions. Thanks for your inputs, both you and NM2K.

Sincerely, Richard

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

Richard,
I love the sound and eveything about Saito's (except the oil and fuel cost), but this new generation of gas motors is undeniable. As of now, I don't believe there is a gas motor that can compete in the smaller than Saito 1.25 size. I have a Swany's House Mojo 60 (3D profile) that I am very tempted to put a DLE-20 on. Initial cost is less than a Saito .82. Fuel cost is nothing! No glow ignitor, no electric starter, no paper towels, no Simple Green.

Video for pattern flyers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BllA1...eature=related

Video for 3D flyers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svVlezIX0eg

There is one downside. If it smells like my Weedeater, I would wrap the front of the fuselage in a plastic trash bag. That helps.


Phillip

spaceworm

I have been tempted to ask my friend to try Coleman camp fuel in his DLE20, but he is a strickly by the book type and likely won't. I run Coleman fuel because it doen't smell like the current gas that we have to buy. I think I will try it in my glow to gas conversions including my FA180. I have a lot of glow engines that i will likely continue to use, but maybe only those that I can run FAI fuel through. Gas is the wave of the future, I think.


Regards, Richard

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

Richard,
I am ignorant regarding these gas airplane motors but I have had quite a few Weed Wackers, a stick edger and a blower. Basically, I just fire them up new and run them wide open for years. No break-in ever. The motors still run like new after all the other parts are worn. I have kept the air filters clean and fresh fuel, that's it. Never even checked or changed a spark plug. Some of them are so old the fuel tubing has rotted and needed replacement. As inexpensive as it is, I would think a $269 20cc motor would be a Rolls Royce compared to my lawn maintaince equipment.

Does Coleman fuel provide as much power as 87 octane? Fuel cost doesn't matter to me because these engines sip fuel. If I'm not mistaken, a much smaller fuel tank is usually installed and that helps save weight.

I am getting very tempted to make a trip to my LHS with $269 burning a hole in my pocket.

Phillip

spaceworm

Although I am sold on Coleman for my G23 and plan on using it for other engines, I would be reluctant to recommend it for other peoples engines unless I tried it first in mine. The gas helicopter and gas boat people use Coleman in their Zenoah engines with no problems. I used it once in my Craftsman 22cc blower and it ran fine. I use it because it smells good and runs good for me, and it does not go stale. Maybe talk around to your resident expertrs or online and make your determination. I would follow the manufacturers recommendation during warranty at least and then experiment after if you want to. Another option for fuel is aviation gas which is higher octane, smells ok and does not go stale. Problem is a supply, unless you know a full scale pilot or a friendly airport FBO.

I like to experiment a little and have not had any problems doing so. But, I do read about my intents and then try to make a non-damaging decision.

Good luck, I think you will like gas. (have you considered a conversion for rc use of one of your lawn equip engines? Lots of info here on RCU in the engine conversions forum).

Regards, Richard

Vertical3-D

My Feedback: (20)

So I had to sell my first and only Saito, an FA-91s...but only to fund the Saito 1.30 twin thats supposed to be here tomorrow!!!!!! anyone have any tips on this thing or any info I should know...its my first twin, being stuffed on my 81" cub as a replacement for the .91...I was planning on a 16-6 master airscrew classic series...will that be a decent prop for it...since power won't be an issue I am going for a more scale look than the APC 14-4W I used on my .91 in that cub...

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

15-6 would be more like it.

Vertical3-D

My Feedback: (20)

would a 16-4 K-series work alright....I'd like to get to a 16" diameter, and would be more concerned with a low reliable idle than max power, the .91 pulled it almost straight up and spent most time under 1/2 throttle...

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

On a Cub it woould be fine

Vertical3-D

My Feedback: (20)

thanks for the response, I do mostly scale flying and r/c bush flying with it, run whole tanks just doing short take offs and landings in small areas...and with this twin it should be even more over powered so top performance wasn't the draw...just the cool factor and the sound...also can I still get parts for the engine and if so where? just in case something breaks eventually

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The 1.30 is pretty old, there are not many parts parts still available for it. One main problem is the Horizon hobby never sold it. The 130 was gone before Horizon acquired the Saito line

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

Richard,
Thanks for the information re Colman fuel.

The beauty of the DLE-20 is it's light weight and it will mount on rails with the only modification being new motor mount holes. I wouldn't even know where to start with my old lawn equipment. Plus, I bet it's very heavy with a magneto etc.

Thanks,
Phillip

maukaonyx

Hi guys. I am trying to change the bearings in my Saito 82a. Been trying to find help here but now I need to ask for help. I have the top half of the engine off - the piston is in the cylinder head on the top half. Now I am trying to figure out how to get the prop hub off so I can get to the bearings around the crankshaft thing. I see reference here to a prop hub puller? I don't have one...is there a way to get it off with just everyday tools around the garage? I don't even know what a prop hub puller would look like. (I used to do slot cars...is it like a large version of a little gear puller?) Help would be appreciated. Also, when I took off the cover over the cams, I obviously lost the orientation of the gears. How do I get that reset properly? And I guess the thin gasket tore...is it necessary to replace that thin thing? Thanks to anyone offering help! Jon

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piec...set-30305.html

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

Others may not agree, but I've always just heated up the block with the crank and prop hub in place. Then I place it on a block of wood and tap the crank out with a hammer. Leave the large prop nut on the crank and use a soft mallet or cushion the hammer with a soft piece of wood. This may be the wrong technique but has worked for me many times. Another member please let me know if there is a downside to my technique.

Bearing replacement is an important topic that gets asked on the thread all the time. The problem is that the thread is so large it's hard to find. Maybe a Club Saito Member could make a sticky note or just keep a copy on their computer and paste it each time this comes up.

Phillip

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Lacking access to a hydraulic press, our choices are limited as to bearing removal technique. I have been using your technique for decades for bearing removal. I've never had a problem using that technique.

I'm sure that a machinist would snear at the thought of doing it our way - but I'm not a machinist. Darn it!


Ed Cregger

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The hammer could cause other damage?

blw

My Feedback: (3)

The gear puller is the best method because the only stress you are putting on the engine is from the tip of the crankshaft as you pull the drive washer off. This is a reusable tool for other engines.

For rear bearing removal, I heat the case at 250 f for starters. Use oven mitts, and hit a piece of wood like a 2x4 and see if the crankshaft and rear bearing will come out the rear. It sometimes takes reheating a bit higher. I had to go to 350 f the last time and I was worried it wouldn't budge, but it did. This is an engine that has sat for 25 years.

For the front bearing I have sanded down dowels that fit up against the bearing back. I used the heat gun for grins one day on that 25 y/o engine and the front bearing shot out. It usually takes reheating in the oven.

Yes, that thin gasket for the cam cover is necessary. The cam gear should have a dot for orientation.

Anybody need a Club Saito membership number?

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

I haven't missed...yet! HE HE HE!

Phillip

wingbeat

My Feedback: (2)

Looking for advice an open rocker 30.

1. I don't have the intake manifold.
Finding a intake manifold for this motor is probably a needle in a haystack. Is there a currently made manifold with a matching diameter that can be modded to fit, or I could just make one.

2. Not sure if this motor was even run! Would like some run in advice.

Engine has good compression, excellent condition.
No shelf queen- this baby is headed to replace the 30s in my Junior 60.

The OR is my 4th Saito. 2 more 30s, 1 in the Jr. 60, and 1 56 in a Sig Rascal 40.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

This is the current 30

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=SAI30S821

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=SAI30S831

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI30S87

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI30S85

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI30S84

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI30S90

http://search.horizonhobby.com/index...***&N=0&vno=72

wingbeat

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks w8ye-

I had looked through the listed parts on Horizon. Current 30 intake manifold is diff. than the old open rocker Mk I.
I could run the carb. mounted direct high on the cylinder tab, even though it'll be vertical, but I'd like to lower the carb, linkage, and intake.
Maybe I could start with an intake manifold from a diff. model and modify it.

Do you know where I may find technical drawings? Wondering if manifolds for smaller Saitos may have similar dia.?

thanks,
'beat

pic is not of my earlier open rocker, but intake manifold the same part I'm looking for.

wingbeat

My Feedback: (2)

oops- double post

n6iap

I have been on this tread for a while but don't think I was given a number.

jimm