kevinkenny

Hi Mike
So glad you liked my presentation. I did this because when I needed help it was very difficult to find information in a simple form that I could easily understand. Having eventually figured out how to fix the engine I have to admit with the help from many on this forum I felt the need to share with others. I also did one for the Saito 180.
Saito forever

Kevin Kenny

earlwb

customPC, "I also bought the Saito Prop not for electric starter. Can someone explain how to use it."
Ok I see how you meant the spinner nut. Well if the crankshaft is too long in your application, you can use the regular prop nut and then use the spinner nut as the jam nut, and leave the little jam nut off. If the crankshaft is too short, just use the spinner nut instead of both the prop nut and the jam nut. Sometimes you have to leave the prop washer off too.But it depends on the prop, etc that you are using.
A little "Blue lockite" on the threads works to help keep the nut from coming loose. Do not use permanent red locktite though. People also call this stuff "threadlocker" too. Sometimes different brands use different colors, so make sure it isn't permanent threadlocking compound if you decide to use it.

Oh yeah, most electric starters have a reversable rubber insert cone that you can remove and reverse for using with spinner nuts and so on.

the pope

Hey Komrad I think you will find there not holes but fly ****e. Why do you continue to torture yourself with all this electron scanning nuclear powered infrared mri spectromatroid hocus pocus gizmos when all u need to do is fuel the thing up and fly and have some fun. You have already imagined that OS engines are crap and now its Saitos turn. O.F hit the nail on the head and he didnt need a degree to figure that one out. Cheers the pope

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Did he 'manufacture' engines and win national championships with them? You know, it was a long time ago. I would think that he would have some sort of photograph or two of them.

cubfloater

My Feedback: (5)

Hey, just bought a used 45 off here and can't get it to even fire. Got good glow plug (new) and primed it good with fuel, turned needle out 2 1/2 turns. Can't even get it to bump after priming and with glow igniter attached. I know I can read the manual for trouble shooting but I'd rather talk to you guys. What do I need to check next? Valve clearances? Seems to have decent compression. And have the same thing on a OS 40 4 stroke. Opps.... or is that a bad word here? Have two 72's and two 56's and love them. Thanks for any tips.

Jim

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

It takes good glow fuel and a glowing glow plug. Take your plug out and see if it is actually glowing. If so, do you have fuel in the combustion chamber?

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

If you can't get it to fire after checking the fuel and glow plug, remove the valve covers and check your valve clearance with your eyeball to make sure that you can see a hint of daylight between the valve and the rocker arm. Also, just check for any dirt in the spray bar. Are the LSN and the HSN where they should be?

You say that compression is good, so we'll take your word for it. Could the engine have been disassembled by its last owner? If so, he may not have put the cam back in correctly. Can you check the timing?

Do all the simple stuff first as these other guys suggest.

Just a couple of possibilities to check. If the compression is good, she should fire. It sounds like something is out of alignment, is all.

Bob

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I check the cam timing by blowing into the exhaust with the carb open. The center point of this being able to blow into the exhaust and out the carb should be about five dgrees before top dead center on a Saito 56. On your 45 it might be at TDC?

cubfloater

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks guys. I did take off valve covers to make sure they were not stuck open but did not look for clearance. And I guess good fuel flow and don't know if there's fuel actually in the chamber. I actually put some in one of them when I had the glow plug out, don't remember which one and on the Saito the glow plug was actually glowing. How would I see if fuel is in the cylinder?

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

I once had a problem where I could not get my Saito .82 to start no matter what. I spent most of a day checking and replacing the entire fuel system. I also completely disassembled the entire motor. The crazy thing is that it was was fine during the previous flying session. Finally the only thing left was to try a different fuel. Started right up! It turns out that the new gallon of fuel was bad. I took it back to the LHS and they quickly handed me a new gallon without saying much. Apparently there was a bad batch of fuel.

cubfloater

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks guys, must not have had fuel in the cylinder. I primed it almost to the point of being hydro-locked and used chicken stick to prevent damage and it bumped right away. Then fired right up and ran like a champ. A little adjusting of the high speed needle and runs and sounds great. It's ready for a plane. On on the OS if I may mention valves didn't seem to have clearance so I adjusted and then noticed two things. Doesn't seem to have much compression and finally got it to bump once but still won't fire. The other thing I notice is it seems to be kind of stiff to turn over. Seems like something is too tight? Or could it be bearing worn out or gummed up? Do you give advice on the other camp? Short of taking it apart what should I do next? And if I need to ask this in the general forum I will. Didn't want to disgrace this forum. Really appreciate the tips on the Saito. This will be my 4th flying Saito. Got two move in the box to build planes for. May just have to sell the OS.

Thanks,
Jim

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Fuel around those bearings should free them up.

The connecting rod may be tight on the crank

cubfloater

My Feedback: (5)

W8ye, thanks I'll try that.

Konrad

That comment about "fly ****e" explains your love and knowledge about engine and materials.

If you take the time to read my post (whats left of them) you will see that I think the Saito is great, for the most part, and have said so repeatedly. I have proven that the OS ringless is not a competition engine, if for the poor choice of materials alone. What does that have to do with Saito making a fine sport four cycle. I like the aluminum seat for its ability to transfer heat. I like the raised valve seal area to enhance low lift flow. But at the same time I'm not blind to Saitos limitation. The SEM "****e" (whatever that is) came about for a discussion with one of the moderators about Saito making chrome valve seats. I state that the ABC jug don't have them and I learned this looking at the seat with the SEM. So what is your issue with my statements (findings)? Now I still doubt that Saito ever chrome plated the valve seat (I've never seen it). I have asked for verification if there ever has been a Saito chromed valve seat as stated in the Saito sticky at the top of this form.

I have also had great warranty service from Saito! She and her agents of the past have been honorable companies. So where have I said a disparaging remark about Saito or for that fact any company without substantiation.

Back to my questions can you enlighten me about my Saito 1.30?

All the best,

Konrad

Rudolph Hart

Ah komrad,THE POPE has let the cat out of the bag.We are inundated with flies over here and have found a way of extracting their byproducts and adding it to the castor we use..it's one of the reasons we have so little trouble running our engines.Plus we can remember what that actually sounds like

cubfloater

My Feedback: (5)

W8YE, you nailed it. After I went back to the engine I noticed some nice thick varnish coming out of the vent from the backplate. So I washed from every opening I could with fuel like you said in the other thread where I asked. It started freeing up and I even had the varnish dripping from the front bearing and so I tried to start it and it fired with just a chicken stick! It ran only a minute or so because I was in the garage and didn't want to coat the wife's car with fuel exhaust but it did run and I'll tune later when outside. Thanks again you are always so knowlegeable and helpful. If I had gone to the LHS I don't know if I would have gotten help since it wasn't a lipo powered brushless motor! Can't wait to put these things on planes and try them out. Oh, and is the manual choke on the OS just for priming the engine? It has one and I'll have to hook a thin wire to it to pull on if you have to use it to start it. I guess I'll try it on the stand to see. I've only got one other 4 stroke with the manual choke on it and I've never even run it. It's an Enya 91. I have to get a plane for it too some day. Thanks again for your help.

Jim

Broken Wings

My Feedback: (20)

Now if we can just get a list of the rest of the engines that you like we can post a "sticky" at the top of the glow engines forum and only post/comment on topics that please you.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The manual chokes on the four strokes are a thing of the past. They do not come on new engines and most people remove them from the old engines

They are generally used for priming only.

You can prime the engine by holding your finger over the exhaust outlet

You cannot have the throttle more open than a fast idle or the engine will never start.

triumphman49

My Feedback: (149)

W8ye, Your so gratious with your responses & advice. I'm very thankful for that & your help. Can't these other fellows find something to be thankful & gratious about?

T-man49 in Alabama

FNQFLYER

Those OS engines Konrad is talking about not being competition worthy.  Could you please send them all to OZ cause I guess us poor O/T flyers are to dumb to realise that we are not flying with competitive motors.  Just for the record I have a few problems keeping up with some of the modified OS 61 fourstrokes we use out here.  And just conside all we use are factory bits lots of nitro and a few internal mods plus a pump, to give between 13 and 16,000 RPM on 12x6 APC props.  Yes those are the reliable figures and as I remember they units weren't grenade motors (blow up as soon as you start them) and they ran on about 55% nitro.  They needed a wash out at the end of the day with FAI fuel and a liberal dose of cool power up the crank case vent to slow down the after effects of the residial nitro though.

But further discussion about that is not for this place, though I'll leave you with a thought after todays flying
85% Lanzo Bomber with 10% nitro into a Saito 65 swinging a 15 x 8 prop at 5,000 rpm climb out power 10 mls of fuel ran for 8 minutes the running 30% nitro same engine with a 13 x 6 Bolly carbon fibre prop turned 13,500 rpm.  All in the tuning and prop guys and of course having a great design engine helps as well.  The Bomber for those who care weighs 4.5 pounds for a 5 pound fuel allocation.  Note also this engine is un modified and still has about another 30 minutes of flying to be considered a run in competition model
Just thought I would tell you that.

cubfloater

My Feedback: (5)

You mean for starting you have to be at fast idle setting or for priming while blocking the exhaust? It did seem like I was having a hard time priming at full throttle setting unless I used the choke!

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Here ya go K, knock yourself out, one difference, I ran mine on WildCat 15% fuel with 18% syn/castor blend and it turned a Graupner 15x8 at 9,100, if my memory serves me well.

http://www.rcmplans.com/issues/reque...021989-1-1.pdf

the pope

Hey there blw its a bit hard to photograph a dream. Cheers the pope

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Did you use one of these to look for those chromed valve seats?

the pope

Hey there komrad its the pope back from the naughty corner .I do love these engines and have a few different brands ,can u please tell me where I said I didnt. As for my knowledge on these things I certainly dont pretend to be an expert.What I do know is to try and keep things simple and not to look for problems that just arent there.As for saying u love saitos you then pick faults with them .I guess its just your passive agressive style. Its like telling a girl shes got nice legs but a face like a busted bumhole. Then u get upset when she slaps your face saying she cant take a compliment.Now back to your question about the 130, dont know, dont care. There u go consider yourself enlightened. Cheers from your freind the pope