Welcome to Club SAITO !
07-16-2012, 03:29 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
SrTelemaster:
The E85 idea is a great one! I used to mix alot of fuel years ago. Coming back from boat races through Indianapolis, I would stop and pick up a 55 gal barrel of Klotz oil. Used to race C class outboard on alky. Still have plenty of Klotz oil. For modelairplane fuel I would mix:7 gal of Methanol, 1 gal of Nitromethane, 1 gal of Klotz and 1 gal of castor. Thats 10 % Nitro and 20% oil. I still use that mix for my glow motors. But I sure like your idea of using E85 ! I believe it is cheaper than regular gasloine.
My first conversion will be on an old Tartan single. I'll try the E85.
Many thanks,
RockinDaddy
The E85 idea is a great one! I used to mix alot of fuel years ago. Coming back from boat races through Indianapolis, I would stop and pick up a 55 gal barrel of Klotz oil. Used to race C class outboard on alky. Still have plenty of Klotz oil. For modelairplane fuel I would mix:7 gal of Methanol, 1 gal of Nitromethane, 1 gal of Klotz and 1 gal of castor. Thats 10 % Nitro and 20% oil. I still use that mix for my glow motors. But I sure like your idea of using E85 ! I believe it is cheaper than regular gasloine.
My first conversion will be on an old Tartan single. I'll try the E85.
Many thanks,
RockinDaddy
07-16-2012, 04:50 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Along with the above, if you suspect that there is dried caster oil in the area, you can try heating it with a heat gun or torch (very carefully) to soften the castor oil. Had a problem like that on my old Saito 100.
Just my $.02
Bob
Just my $.02
Bob
07-16-2012, 06:08 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: rockin daddy
SrTelemaster:
But I sure like your idea of using E85 ! I believe it is cheaper than regular gasloine.
My first conversion will be on an old Tartan single. I'll try the E85.
Many thanks,
RockinDaddy
SrTelemaster:
But I sure like your idea of using E85 ! I believe it is cheaper than regular gasloine.
My first conversion will be on an old Tartan single. I'll try the E85.
Many thanks,
RockinDaddy
Not only is E85 cheaper than unleaded pump gas, it's higher octane than 100 Avgas & it burns cleaner. No carbon/ash buildup like gasoline.
The drawbacks? It hygroscopic (absorbs water) & it require a larger delivery volume (30% to 33%) than gasoline. You will sacrifice a little fuel economy but increased power will allow a given level of flight performance @ less throttle so the economy gap is lessened somewhat.
07-16-2012, 06:55 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
HI , I NEED INSTRUCTION MANUAL FOR THE OLD SAITO FA 80 T ( TWIN CY , WITH TWIN CARB ) . ANY BODY ?
THANKS
ISAAC
[email protected]
THANKS
ISAAC
[email protected]
07-16-2012, 07:13 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
It is an early high compression Saito .80 with 15.6 to 1 compression, it turns a Bolly 13.5x8 at 8,790 on Davis ABC mix. I do not know the mix %s. I used a glow plug with the coil drilled out. The idle was 1,500.
07-16-2012, 10:13 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
While we're on the subject of fuel ....I've been told that heli fuel will help a Saito 4 stroke engine run much cooler. Is that true?
I'm having a bit of trouble keeping the temp down on my installation in a fully cowled Hangar 9 Fokker DVII and looking for anything that will help me not fry the engine. I've narrowed the air intake considerably to direct the air flow over the cylinder and I have a very large opening in the bottom of the cowl (easily 3 to 1). I haven't run it yet to see if it helps. If what I've been told is true about heli fuel is true, I'll use it.
RJ
I'm having a bit of trouble keeping the temp down on my installation in a fully cowled Hangar 9 Fokker DVII and looking for anything that will help me not fry the engine. I've narrowed the air intake considerably to direct the air flow over the cylinder and I have a very large opening in the bottom of the cowl (easily 3 to 1). I haven't run it yet to see if it helps. If what I've been told is true about heli fuel is true, I'll use it.
RJ
07-17-2012, 05:52 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Hey Oberstleutenant:
You can get your Folker DVII to run cooler if you carefully install a fine mesh screen in the front area of your cowl. I have some fine industrial grade stainless mesh screen that looks like the original grills. I will send you a few small pieces if you want. What ever fits in a mailing envelope. This if installed in the front of your cowl area; itwill not add much weight to the front of your D VII and will allow plenty of air to cool your Saito motor. I epoxied some in my Junkers fighter cowl that kept my Saito 65 cool.
Regards,
RockinDaddy
You can get your Folker DVII to run cooler if you carefully install a fine mesh screen in the front area of your cowl. I have some fine industrial grade stainless mesh screen that looks like the original grills. I will send you a few small pieces if you want. What ever fits in a mailing envelope. This if installed in the front of your cowl area; itwill not add much weight to the front of your D VII and will allow plenty of air to cool your Saito motor. I epoxied some in my Junkers fighter cowl that kept my Saito 65 cool.
Regards,
RockinDaddy
07-17-2012, 06:08 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Hobbsy
It is an early high compression Saito .80 with 15.6 to 1 compression, it turns a Bolly 13.5x8 at 8,790 on Davis ABC mix. I do not know the mix %s. I used a glow plug with the coil drilled out. The idle was 1,500.
It is an early high compression Saito .80 with 15.6 to 1 compression, it turns a Bolly 13.5x8 at 8,790 on Davis ABC mix. I do not know the mix %s. I used a glow plug with the coil drilled out. The idle was 1,500.
07-17-2012, 06:25 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Might be able to use the original glow carb as they deliver adequate Methanol fuel. The Walbro is a pumper gas carb. Usually the jets are not large enough for alcohol.
The Saito 80 on diesel mix is cool! (35% kerosene, 35% ether, 15% castor, 15% Klotz) If you buy John Deere spray ether in a can and vent the cans with an ice pick, you can drain the ether. Put em' in the freezer before you vent them. You loose less ether. The John Deere has a higher percentage of ethyl ether than the cheaper stuff. If you use the cheaper starting fluid; you will justhave to add a little bit more to your mix. I mix my own diesel fuelfor my small diesels. Boy is it messy!!! The ether eats any covering off the airframe. You have to spray clear enamel on the seams as theether attacks the covering adhesive.
The Saito 80 on diesel mix is cool! (35% kerosene, 35% ether, 15% castor, 15% Klotz) If you buy John Deere spray ether in a can and vent the cans with an ice pick, you can drain the ether. Put em' in the freezer before you vent them. You loose less ether. The John Deere has a higher percentage of ethyl ether than the cheaper stuff. If you use the cheaper starting fluid; you will justhave to add a little bit more to your mix. I mix my own diesel fuelfor my small diesels. Boy is it messy!!! The ether eats any covering off the airframe. You have to spray clear enamel on the seams as theether attacks the covering adhesive.
07-17-2012, 07:14 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Hi all:
Seeking information to put out a fg saito-14, I can not work well on high, I give gas and does not work. At low well regulated, it was consumed 2 liters of fuel to 20:1, as indicated by step manual.If someone the same as me, I appreciate , greetings from Argentina
07-17-2012, 08:42 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
rockin daddy,
Thanks for the offer but, this ARF came with a wire mesh grill. I've had to block off about 2/3 of it to direct the air over the cylinder head. I'll run it today to see how much it has helped. Imay try some heli fuel if my baffling doesn't work.
RJ
Thanks for the offer but, this ARF came with a wire mesh grill. I've had to block off about 2/3 of it to direct the air over the cylinder head. I'll run it today to see how much it has helped. Imay try some heli fuel if my baffling doesn't work.
RJ
07-17-2012, 01:46 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Rowdyjoe, I forgot to mention in the earlier post with pics that if you look closely at the baffling aft of the opening you will see it expand rearwards to the motor installation. With that expanding area the air slows down as it reaches the motor to have time to collect more heat. Those baffles also fit relatively tightly against the fins to ensure as little leakage as possible. The whole purpose is that ALL the air gets directed over the motor. As pointed out, if it has an easier escape path it will flow that way and not carry away any heat.
Can you take any pics of the current motor installation? Perhaps that would point to where improvements can be made. If you do post some, include the exit area, as well.
Can you take any pics of the current motor installation? Perhaps that would point to where improvements can be made. If you do post some, include the exit area, as well.
07-17-2012, 02:29 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: lopflyers
I run heli fuel 30% in my 100. It runs cooler and idles better. $$$$$ though
I run heli fuel 30% in my 100. It runs cooler and idles better. $$$$$ though
07-17-2012, 03:55 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Need help,
I have a Saito 82a in a DeKnight Special by hanger 9. When the cowl is off it idles great. I can get 1800 on idle easy. In fact it will idle even lower but eventually will die. At 1800 it is very reliable with great transition to high speed.
Now the problem. As soon as I install the cowl it will not idle at all. I can start it at about half throttle and it will run great from there to full throttle but as soon as I drop the RPMs to less than 2400 RPMs it will stumble and die.
What I have tried so far. Installed a volicity stack. Checked all fuel lines, vent line, to ensure they are not getting perched.
A Saito 72a was in the plane before and it did not do this. I pulled the 72a because it was not pulling hard enough to make a proper takeoff. The 72 is very old with lots of hours on the engine, and just about worn out. (very low compression)
I have a Saito 82a in a DeKnight Special by hanger 9. When the cowl is off it idles great. I can get 1800 on idle easy. In fact it will idle even lower but eventually will die. At 1800 it is very reliable with great transition to high speed.
Now the problem. As soon as I install the cowl it will not idle at all. I can start it at about half throttle and it will run great from there to full throttle but as soon as I drop the RPMs to less than 2400 RPMs it will stumble and die.
What I have tried so far. Installed a volicity stack. Checked all fuel lines, vent line, to ensure they are not getting perched.
A Saito 72a was in the plane before and it did not do this. I pulled the 72a because it was not pulling hard enough to make a proper takeoff. The 72 is very old with lots of hours on the engine, and just about worn out. (very low compression)
07-17-2012, 04:18 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Check the throttle control run both at servo and engine, could be fuel pick up twisted, (I always use rigid line) and as discussed here cooling of the engine.
Try it with the glo driver connected while tesing it through the range.
BTB the 72 might have benefitted from an increase in nitro, simple fix to add a bit more grunt
Try it with the glo driver connected while tesing it through the range.
BTB the 72 might have benefitted from an increase in nitro, simple fix to add a bit more grunt
07-17-2012, 07:54 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Cougar,
I remember the air flow techniques you used and will look back at the picutres again. I understand what you're getting at and, if the current mod doesn't work, will be delving further into the methods you've used to cool her down. Ihave left an opening in the grill work just large enough for the cylinder to get air but, can build inward with baffeling if what I've done is not enough.
If my first attempt is not successful I'll take some pictures and post them along with a cry for help.
Iplan to start it up tomorrow and test for overheating.
By the way ...what's the concensus on the heli fuel. I got one positve and a couple of hints. Anyone else care to weigh in on this issue?
Thanks again,
RJ
I remember the air flow techniques you used and will look back at the picutres again. I understand what you're getting at and, if the current mod doesn't work, will be delving further into the methods you've used to cool her down. Ihave left an opening in the grill work just large enough for the cylinder to get air but, can build inward with baffeling if what I've done is not enough.
If my first attempt is not successful I'll take some pictures and post them along with a cry for help.
Iplan to start it up tomorrow and test for overheating.By the way ...what's the concensus on the heli fuel. I got one positve and a couple of hints. Anyone else care to weigh in on this issue?
Thanks again,
RJ
07-18-2012, 03:39 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I've alwasy use heli fuel 15% in my 4C and have never had an over heating problem but I'm not sure its the reason for not over heating. Try it and lets us know.
07-18-2012, 04:29 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Sharpeye22
Need help,
I have a Saito 82a in a DeKnight Special by hanger 9. When the cowl is off it idles great. I can get 1800 on idle easy. In fact it will idle even lower but eventually will die. At 1800 it is very reliable with great transition to high speed.
Now the problem. As soon as I install the cowl it will not idle at all. I can start it at about half throttle and it will run great from there to full throttle but as soon as I drop the RPMs to less than 2400 RPMs it will stumble and die.
What I have tried so far. Installed a volicity stack. Checked all fuel lines, vent line, to ensure they are not getting perched.
A Saito 72a was in the plane before and it did not do this. I pulled the 72a because it was not pulling hard enough to make a proper takeoff. The 72 is very old with lots of hours on the engine, and just about worn out. (very low compression)
Need help,
I have a Saito 82a in a DeKnight Special by hanger 9. When the cowl is off it idles great. I can get 1800 on idle easy. In fact it will idle even lower but eventually will die. At 1800 it is very reliable with great transition to high speed.
Now the problem. As soon as I install the cowl it will not idle at all. I can start it at about half throttle and it will run great from there to full throttle but as soon as I drop the RPMs to less than 2400 RPMs it will stumble and die.
What I have tried so far. Installed a volicity stack. Checked all fuel lines, vent line, to ensure they are not getting perched.
A Saito 72a was in the plane before and it did not do this. I pulled the 72a because it was not pulling hard enough to make a proper takeoff. The 72 is very old with lots of hours on the engine, and just about worn out. (very low compression)
07-18-2012, 05:51 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Thanks FNQFlyer,
Everything you suggested was fine but one thing. I had to use a flashlight and look in through the prop exit hole with the prop and spanner removed to find it but. The throttle arm was being depressed by the top of the cowl. So at anything above about half throttle the grove in the throttle barrel was holding the throttle open but when the throttle setting was dependent on the little spring in the carb that pushes out on the throttle barrel the cowl was pushing it in and shutting down the engine. I made a new throttle arm that has the arm on the side of the barrel nearer tha carb instead of at the end of the barrel. It now rotates and moves in and out without touching the top of the cowl.
Thanks for the help all.
Everything you suggested was fine but one thing. I had to use a flashlight and look in through the prop exit hole with the prop and spanner removed to find it but. The throttle arm was being depressed by the top of the cowl. So at anything above about half throttle the grove in the throttle barrel was holding the throttle open but when the throttle setting was dependent on the little spring in the carb that pushes out on the throttle barrel the cowl was pushing it in and shutting down the engine. I made a new throttle arm that has the arm on the side of the barrel nearer tha carb instead of at the end of the barrel. It now rotates and moves in and out without touching the top of the cowl.
Thanks for the help all.
